Thanks for the clarification. I don't know about the presence of cocyta in OK, but a good friend has collected a few in Wheeler County, Texas (summer of 2005), so I was a bit presumptuous in thinking they could show up in OK. Thanks for the help on this one and any other Phyciodes that you can sort through.

Hard to believe, P. cocyta is a single-brooded northern boreal creature, fond of Montane or Canadian places with grassy meadows, cold running brooks, and fir trees, but I suppose stranger things have happened. And, indeed, if really in Texas (I'll remain skeptical if you don't mind (: ) it certainly would be logical that they are in OK too.

I understand your skepticism. No hard feelings. I haven't personally examined his specimens, but I trust his ID. Perhaps cocyta is expanding it's range? I know it's confirmed and in fact fairly common now in Utah, most of Colorado, as well as Arizona, and across northern New Mexico, so maybe it is in fact expanding ... not that I'm disagreeing with your ID correction.

No hard feelings here, discussion is nearly always good. These are very confusing insects, and some good P. tharos look almost just like P. cocyta, with guilt by association or location being the main way to tell which you have. There is also often a tendency for wishful thinking to affect identifications. Even when the orange is less interrupted above on P. tharos, it has a different "look" about it, that is difficult to describe without writing a dissertation. As for southern distribution, the difference between Arizona, Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico from Texas and Oklahoma is that P. cocyta occurs in the mountains, usually above about 8000 ft in the south and 6000 ft in the north within these states. So, they are still up there with their fir trees and meadows, or at least cool Boreal conditions, where they are single-brooded (always? - I suspect so). P. tharos is here too, but it is down below P. cocyta, multiple-brooded, in the hotter country flying in irrigated areas, along drainages, etc. (neither like dry desert conditions) There is little (but some) overlap. There are similar single-brooded populations in the Appalachians, but again, up high. Then there is P. batesii, which is part of this confusing group too. It will be interesting to see future developments on taxonomy within this group (for instance, I think the "batesii" from Colorado and Utah just represent a regional variant of P. cocyta - but am I correct? - maybe not). It would be interesting to see results on molecular samples from material from places like OK, TX, and even IL (all places where I would not expect to see P. cocyta).

That makes perfect sense. I failed to place proper importance on elevation and the distinctive habitat found there. Given that information, I would think it best to assume any alleged cocyta in places suches as TX & OK are most likely not cocyta. It may still be possible that some stray cocyta end up in northern Illinois, but I wouldn't expect to find a strong population.

And I have heard that others also believe batesii may be a regional variant as you point out. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that's the case.

I really appreciate the dialogue. I am very grateful for the assistance and corrections. It seems like things are always easier here in the east. :)

to the Info pages in the guide? Since all of this is on an image in Frass we will lose all this great info soon.

I suppose some of the pertinent information that David has shared regarding the identification and ecology of cocyta could be compiled and included on the info pages. I'll work on that a little later.

Move it back out of frass....
or I can if you want

would be a nice addition to the guide if someone can confirm J.D.'s thoughts about the antennae and the species. We'll move this back to ID Request and see what others think.