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Questionable IDs. We need higher standards.

We should start setting higher standards for ID’s and better documentation in questionable cases. I have seen many images placed on a species page even though the ID is not 100% or even 90% certain. I will start moving them to genus level. But, I would like to hear the opinions of other editors.
Often an expert (and sometimes a not so expert) says something like: “Probably, or likely or maybe” it is such and such species, the temptation to go ahead and assume that this is the correct ID is too strong to resist.(I know, I will start going through my own images).
Here are a few examples: Schinia, Andrena1, Andrena2, Andrena3.
We should be more rigorous. An image placed on the wrong page detracts from the guide. Also, in some cases it becomes harder to spot and properly Id it at a later time.
Perhaps it would help if experts consistently made it clear when the ID is not absolutely certain by adding a comment such as: It should be placed at genus level for now.
In other cases the contributor places it there without any explanation. Perhaps they consulted an expert, or a key or just plain guessed. A comment should accompany those images, unless we are talking about one of the very distinctive, easily IDed bugs.
Please, I would like to hear some comments.

Identifications.
First, I agree no genus or species level identification should be 'anonymous,' including ones submitted by reputable contributors. I still have no idea who is identifying Tom Murray's Psocoptera images, for example, though I trust Tom is not pulling names out of the air himself. Second, in instances where an expert offers a "possible" or "probable" species, I have no problem creating a species page, but with a disclaimer on the "info" tab stating that "identification from images alone is problematic." That phrase can be applied to MANY instances of genus and species identifications! Lastly, if the image is of a voucher specimen taken after the image was taken and subsequently identified by an expert, then that should be mentioned with the initial submission. Aside: as advances in molecular biology happen, lots of images we are currently confident about will be turned upside down.

 
Psocoptera id's
Philip Careless has been identifying them, and giving a description of how he's identifying them with comments under the picture. A couple of times I've added a second picture to the species page myself after the first has been identified.
I googled his name, and came up with this. His specialty seems to be digger wasps, but he's part of the group from the University of Guelph, along with Dr. Steve Marshall. He seems credible to me, and he's the only one to offer identifications on Psocoptera.

 
Philip Careless has filled out his bio for us, too
see here.

 
Great name:-)
Gee, just what we want for an expert: Careless:-) LOL! Seriously, I guess I just never stumbled upon one of the psocid images that he had commented on. All the ones I have seen had nothing but Tom's information. Thanks Hannah, Tom.

"Paper Trail"
The late Bryant Mather of MS was an avid amateur lepidopterist. He would send many of his moth specimens to multiple experts. Often he would receive conflicting ID's. All of these opinions were carefully recorded, and the various ID labels were stacked on the specimen pin. I looked at some of his specimens that had conflicting ID labels from three different well-known authorities. These long "paper trails" served as an indicator of the level of uncertainty of the ID. If three experts agreed all was well: If three disagreed, caution was suggested.
I think a paper trail can be equally useful with BugGuide photos. If you have doubts about an ID, add your comment, but carefully explain why you have doubts. If you disagree with expressed doubts, add your comment, again with a careful explanation. This assembly of comments will help show the level of confidence associated with the photo, whether is is placed at the genus or species level.
Another area that I think is important. If a photo has been identified to species without an explanation and you are genuinely curious about the basis of this identification, FIRST: Exhaust your resources! Check other BugGuide photos, and fieldguides. Put the name in Google. If you discover information that helps explain the reason for the ID, add a comment providing this info for others. If not, THEN I think it is fair to ask for the basis for the identification. If you see such a request and have useful information, please supply it. As a more generalized idea, GET INVOLVED!
One last item: Certainty is extremely rare in identification of creatures, even with specimen in hand. Almost all revisions of groups of creatures uncover misidentified specimens in museum collections (at least according to the revisor). Identification from photographs introduces another order of magnitude in possible errors. If we require certainty, we had best leave things at the family level. Whether stated or not, I think some level of uncertainty is to be expected, especially at the species level. BugGuide fortunately allows for comments, corrections, and adjustment of level of ID as needed. Please use these features!
Gayle

 
Excellent point--documentation guidelines needed
The idea of a paper trail, or comment trail, is excellent.
Again, I think much of the problem is that many species-level ID's are not documented on the photos, or the guide pages. In some cases, an expert has been consulted, but does not want their name attached in order to avoid a deluge of inquiries. This needs to be mentioned, somehow, in the caption. Ideas?

This leads me to think that we need to draft some guidelines for documenting identifications, and then see if they can be followed--there's the rub. I feel many contributors could use improvement there. How to encourage this? (I have no idea!)

 
Documentation guidelines
That is exactly what I had in mind when I started this topic. I have no idea how to go about it, either. But, perhaps there is already some improvement here. I noticed some comments recently that were usually omitted in similar situations. So, the more we discuss the subject, the better.

Yes, but one disagreement/danger of too much caution
I think the ID of that Schinia as arcigera is fine--it is a good match for all the other images we have ID'd as that species, it is common in the southeast, and the season is correct--early fall is when it is usually seen. I think the commenters (John and Jane Balaban) were thinking of Schinia rivulosa, which has a similar, but not identical pattern. I'd say that ID is just about as good as any moth ID we have here. (I'm of course, prepared to be shown incorrect.)

I'll certainly agree on the Andrena species. For that sort of thing, I think leaving a photo at the genus level, with comments on probable species are fine.

Myself, I can't get too worried about this problem. I take any ID from a photo with a grain of salt, depending on the documentation. I'm perfectly willing to assign a photo to a species if the strong majority of evidence supports it. For instance, I identified our first Epicauta pennsylvanica based on illustrations in popular guides, host plant preferences, and overwhelming abundance on a regional checklist from my area, combined with some process of elimination:

I still don't have a 100% certain ID based on a key or expert opinion on this one, but I think the ID has stood the test of time. Like anything, it might be corrected in the future. But I think it was useful, in that case, to go ahead and take a shot at a species-level ID. Otherwise we would not all have learned something about this genus.

I've seen too many cases here, too, of experts coming in and making a quick, incorrect ID based on overall appearance. It happened with this Ichneumon wasp, for instance:

Originally it was identified as Gnamptopelta obsidianator, a superficially similar species, by an expert. The ID seemed completely firm, but it was not. Another expert, Ray Fisher, later corrected the ID and showed all of us the difference. All of us make mistakes, even experts, and the nice thing about BugGuide is that they can be corrected. Though it would be nice to prevent all mistakes, there is also the danger that we will prevent new information from being developed by being too cautious. We really are improving the state-of-the-art here in field identification of North American insects, and some mistakes are inevitable.

Image directly to the guide
In the case where the contributor places an image without any explanation, I think that the help section may need to be updated. Below is the current instruction to the contributor.

How do I submit my image for inclusion in the guide?

If you're confident about the identity, you should feel free to submit the image directly to the appropriate place in the guide.


If I'm confident!?!? Maybe it should have stronger wording.

I understand that editors don't want to do all the moving, but they also don't want to police the guide either. Does it take more time for an editor to police the guide, or to do the placement themself?

Unless all of the moving is done by the editors, and every image goes through a holding area like ID request, I think that images will always end up where ever the contributor was confident it belonged?

 
Confidence
John (or anyone), do you have a proposal for the stronger wording?

 
Slow reply
I wanted to explain my slow reply... I guess I don't really believe in the policy of users placing their images directly into the guide. I guess some statement about being 100% absolutely positively sure with scary graphics might be OK. I have seen some IDs that even I have considered way off. And even after the user is told that the image is incorrectly placed, it remains unmoved. And none of the other images look anything like that one. Also I have seen some really poor images placed in the guide that should probably be Frass (but that is another discussion).

- Crazy wish follows -
In the long run I would like to see submitted (or moved) images placed in an "ID Confirmation" area, similar to "ID Request". The images would have a pointer to were the user was trying to submit (or move) the image, but an editor would have to click some "OK" button to actually have the change occur to the Guide.
Every time a user tried to submit (or move) an image (Same methods as today), the image would appear in "ID confirmation" instead of the Guide. It would automatically contain a link to where the user was trying to add the image. An editor could come along, see the image and link, and either click “OK”, add a comment, or Frass.
The only exception would be images the user was trying to move to Frass, and possibly images being submitted or moved by an editor. I actually like peer review better.

 
A step in the right direction
This is a very good suggestion and easy to implement. We certainly need stronger wording there. That instruction was adequate when there were a handful of contributors and it was relatively easy to catch mistakes, but it needs to be changed.
John, are you listening? Perhaps, we'll have to e-mail him.

 
My 2 cents....
I would make the assumption that over time, the percentage of misidentified insects will become smaller and smaller due to the fact that old mistakes will eventually be caught, and new entries will constitute a lower and lower fraction of the total amount.

In the mean time I would imagine that problems will be caused by the breadth of subject matter, and that not all areas of the guide will be as closely followed by insect specialists as others. Other than going out and actively soliciting the help of experts in the areas where knowledge is needed, I don't know what could be done. Higher standards involving reference, and supporting material might be the answer, or it may just require time for more people and resources come together and mistakes are found and corrected as a matter of course.

Comment
I think it is good to leave a comment when you see something like that. Just something simple like, Unless the ID is certain, this image should probably be left at the genus level.

 
yes..
seems like a good idea to leave that kind of comment. i have noticed that sometimes when i am unsure of an ID and i put a question mark after it, the owner of the photo moves it to the guide without it being confirmed.

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