Colias Confusion

reflect negatively upon BugGuide but I also realize that such mistakes can occur because of the way BugGuide is set up. Although the majority of these images were posted directly to the Guide they are still visible in the Recent Tab aren't they, or do editors see something different from contributors? Some of these images have been there for well over a year. Can you imagine the confusion for someone trying to identify a sulphur by using the Browse Tab and seeing an Orange Sulphur in the Clouded Sulphur pages that looks like their specimen? Hey, I've got a Clouded Sulphur they say, but they really don't. I know that there are several editors here that are capable of distinguishing these two species. Just how these got through to the wrong pages and remained there for a long period of time is not exactly clear to me but something should be done to keep this from happening again.

Since you started this topic 5 days ago, about 430 images have been posted. Right now it's the slow season- imagine what it's like in the summer!

What happens is that there's a period of a day or two when images are close enough to the front of Recent to be easily noticed. After that, you have to wade through dozens of pages to get to them. Sometimes it feels like Lucy in the candy factory- the conveyor belt just keeps going whether we have time to process everything or not.

Our more knowledgeable editors go through the guide and clean up errors as much as they can, but not everything gets attention often enough.

It's simply impossible for a group our size to prevent mis-identifications in an image-base of this size. We do our best, and I think you'll find that the vast majority of images are where they should be- but we'll always be a long way from perfection.

such things will always keep happening. It is the nature of the site. Errors are made and then eventually corrected as knowledgeable folks examine the work. There's no need to bash editors or BugGuide. As Chuck pointed out all editors are volunteers and many of us are amateurs learning here from the experts.

What do editors do? Well I, John, am taking a break from grading my students' lab reports, checking on recent developments on BugGuide. Yesterday, I led a chainsaw group at Harms Woods finishing off some restoration work there. Later today we will be going to a wedding. Tomorrow we'll leave on a trip and, depending on web connections, we may not even look at BugGuide for four or five days. We're just regular folk helping out as best we can here, and would like to be appreciated for what we do here rather than bashed for what we don't.

But enough self pity here! :) One thing we would certainly suggest, Howell, if you are as knowledgeable on butterflies and dragonflies, etc. as you appear to be, is to email John VanDyk at Iowa State (you can track him down through the link at the bottom of this page) and ask him to make you an editor! Explain your strengths and how you hope to help out and he will most likely agree. Then you can be the editor who sees that all the butterfly images are put away, and in the right place. As Chuck says, we can use all the help we can get, and we would certainly appreciate your expertise.

expert on anything in entomology. I have no special abilities or insights. I've made my share of mistakes. My desire to identify all species of butterflies in my area has compelled me to do the the necessary field work to be able to separate Clouded from Orange Sulphurs. The same thing goes for other species such as grass skippers. And that is something that anyone should be able to do if they have the interest.

I know I can be a bit abrasive at times but really I'm just trying to understand how something like this can happen with two very common species of butterflies. BugGuide doesn't necessarily have to be like you say- that errors like this will always occur- but, of course that would most likely require a programming change. My question about what editors do was meant to be what they do here at BugGuide, not what they do at work or other activities. I can appreciate full well the time constraints for a person who works 40+ hours a week, does conservation work as we both do, etc.
I've always appreciated your input even if I didn't agree with you and I'm sorry if you took offense. I guess the bottom line here from my perspective is that BugGuide isn't what I thought it was supposed to be.

You care about getting things right. I suspect that you're also willing to pitch in and help out. All that remains is a basic understanding of how we do things around here, and the temperament to use your authority responsibly and for the good of BugGuide. I doubt any of that would be beyond you.

We have editors ranging from more-or-less-knowledgeable amateurs (even high-school students) to taxonomists who are internationally known and respected in their fields. Each of us does what we know best how to do, and all of it helps.

The incredible part is how well things do work, given the lack of central authority and immutable rules. If you read back through the forums, you'll find that most of what we have is the result of consensus based on suggestions contributed from just about everybody. John VanDyk, like Troy Bartlett before him, has the last word- but mostly lets the community work things out.

It's not always pretty, and we have the occasional regrettable conflict- but on balance the result is far better than possible by any of the other organizational models we might have tried.

to be smartasses - we were serious! As you have taken the time to learn the butterflies in detail in southern Indiana, you can be a great help here at BugGuide. There are 40 images of butterflies on the base butterfly page waiting to be put away and it's not even the busy season, and who knows how many sitting on family or genus pages (and who knows how many in error on guide pages as you have discovered). Someone with your interest and talent would be a great help at making certain those images are put away and those pages are as correct as possible. Please consider it.

We're afraid the programming changes will have to wait till John VanDyk finishes his current work on BugGuide 2.0. There are numerous pending suggestions for improvement, including one where ID'd images get put on a "Please put away" page and only editors get to do the final move to a guide page, which may be what you had in mind. Feel free to make other suggestions in the forums, but realize anything complicated will take some time.

Please don't give up on BugGuide, but rather help make it what you think it should be.

First, I would like to say I am honored by the suggestion that I request to become an editor. That is something that I will certainly consider.

Second, I didn't intend to offend any editor. It's just that I want BugGuide to be even better than it is. If these misplaced images are an artifact of the way BugGuide is set up- and I think they are- then no editor need be apologetic or defensive about it. Hopefully something to prevent this type thing will be in place in the next version.

Finally, J&J, I didn't ever think that you were being smart with me. Perhaps I didn't choose my words carefully enough. As you know sometimes I'm a little hasty.