Hey Bill

This specimen while at first glance, I would agree that it was T. lyricen due to its black pronotal collar, I am hesitant to say it is so.

The maculations on what I can see on the mesonotum are not indicative of lyricen. It is lacking the tawny areas indicative of most species of lyricen here in the Northeast and the color of the legs of lyricens are brown. These are clearly green.

This specimen looks to be T. canicularis due to the presence of pubescent areas on the abdomen and the green legs. Also T. canicularis can have black pronotal collars.

Finally the time of the year seems to be late for an emerging lyricen. Here in the northeast they begin to emerge around July 4th and nearly stop around the 2nd week of August.

While T. canicularis can be heard from June 30th way into October, their peak emergence time starts at the end of August and into September.

Gerry

It is really confusing (?)

So what are the best features for separation?...and are there any consistent features useful for image comparisons?....I know familiarity is hard to qualify and quantify...and sometimes that's all we have to go on!

Very GOOD POINT.
I agree with the timing - seems late even for lyricen here in NC (though they can pop up on occasion that late)

Thanks Gerry!

I figured if anyone knew, it would be you.

I saw the greenish legs, but tenerals of lyricen down this way can have that strong green cast early on...even to the legs. The front legs did look a little browner....I really wasn't sure, hence the (?). The black pronotal collar and dark eyes are what threw me.

T. lyricen down here usu. have much more blue/blue-green wing veins, esp. around the hinges. I remember you saying something about greener wing veins/hinges up your way. Even the lyricen images of yours deviate from those down here in that trait.

I need to review specimens (series) of T. canicularis. It seems that not unlike lyricen it is highly variable, but more on an individual level than geographic.

Hi Bill,
Thank you for your comment. I have several pictures of 4 different Cicadas from 2002. Seems to have been a bumper year: I'd never seen so many! Three of the four were taken on the same day: Aug. 8, 2002. The other was July 17, 2002. Question: do you think Gerry Bunker would be interested to see these additional photos? They show the markings clearly for each of the four. If he is interested, would I post them here or does he have an email address? I'm still relatively new to BugGuide and am not sure how to proceed, if at all.

Many thanks, Marcia

Oops! Only in THIS comment did I type in the wrong date! It's not significantly different, but I think accuracy is paramount.

They were all taken on August 3, 2002.

Also, MANY, MANY THANKS TO ALL WHO HELPED SORT THESE PHOTOS OUT, CATEGORIZE THEM AND IDENTIFY THEM. It was a lot to do and I thank you very much.

Marcia

I think it would be great if you could post all cicada images here on bugguide. The more images we have from various localities, the better and more complete the overall picture. We need as many pic's as we can get to better compare and contrast individuals, populations and species.

Thanks,
bill

Will do! Thank you!

Marcia

I've just finished posting just about all of the photos I have of Cicadas. The only ones I did not post were of the Cicada on the Fence Post, peeking around the post as I moved around, trying to get a better angle. These two show just a very partial view of the eyes and face, but if you think they'd help, I'll send them in.

I double-checked the dates and times of day for each of the four Cicadas. Each photo has the camera information for it as part of its file, as I'm sure you know. They are accurate as posted. Looking forward to what you and Gerry and others will see in these photos.

And, I haven't seen a Cicada since these from 2002. I hear them, but haven't seen one.

Trying to figure out some confusing info. In this image you say the 2 link images are "ADULT NEWLY EMERGED FROM NYMPH ON RIGHT".
But you also say there were "three Cicadas I photographed that day, all in my yard" and you post these three sequences. But note in the new sequences you have these 2 older images as 2 seperate individual insects.


So my first question is are the 2 original images that you submitted really the same individual insect or 2 of 3 you saw that day?

The two original images I submitted are of two different Cicadas I saw that day. I apologize for the confusion. Studying insects is new to me. On that day I photographed three separate Cicadas. Now, in an effort to clarify each one I've given each a title. Here they are in the order in which I photographed them on 8-03-02 as well as the location and time of day for each.

Newly Emerged Clinging to Iris Foliage: 6:30 AM. Pale in color.

Cicada on Fence Post: 3 PM

Cicada on Ground: 3:30 - 4 PM

I hope this clarifies who's who. Again, in my 2 original messages the photos are of separate, individual Cicadas, each in a distinct location.

Marcia

I tried to:
1) Link the correct images together
2) Put the images on the correct page in the guide
3) Frass a bunch of the extra views which seem redundant
4) Mark adults as adults
5) Set the gender on those left in the guide
6) Put the correct date on the first 2 images

Wow,

All these new images changes things significantly for me. I have seen in the past how users will put more than one cicada insect in one posting and call it the same insect so it gets confusing some time but these are clearly different specimens.

Now with additional series of photos of the insect that I originally described as T. canicularis, I'm going to have to say that my first identification is wrong. The teneral on the left is clearly T. lyricen due to its larger size than T. canicularis. The one in the middle photo above is of a male T. lyricen and the one on the right is a female T. lyricen (due to many more photos of the same specimen found on Bugguide). I noticed that the dates have also changed, original posting was August 30th for the date the photo was taken, now I see that it is August 3rd, well within peak emergence time for T. lyricen.

Sorry about my original mis-identification!!

That clears up a lot for me too.

Based on the original date, which I failed to consider initially, I have to agree with Gerry 100% on his initial response...had I taken more time to review the data, I would have been less inclined to think lyricen based on Aug 30th ....that is awful late for lyricen even here in the mid-South.

Since both lyricen and canicularis are variable that makes it even more difficult at times to sort images.

Thanks to all involved who took the time to take the pic's, post the images and review/id.