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Posting to ID Request?

I don't want to stir up too much trouble, but I'm trying to figure out why some folks post large series of moths or beetles to ID Request when they could just post them to the appropriate order and/or family page? I believe that there may be a perception that our experts won't "find" them elsewhere, although I think that at least some of our experts are more likely to look in the specific guide pages than in ID Request. Do we have a suggested policy on this? Can I legitimately move large series of moth images, for example, to Moths from ID Request soon after they are posted? Some of my concern, it must be admitted, comes from an irrational anxiety about the size of ID Request in the summertime...

Galls, leaf mines, etc.
I think ID Request is the best place to post unidentified insect/spider "signs," but editors who feel like tidying up ID Request should feel free to move images to the pages for unidentified galls, leaf mines, and eggs, and if none of these categories apply, then to unsolved bug-related mysteries (this page has links to the previous three). I bring this up because these things seem to build up at the back of ID Request until either I do something about them or they are frassed. When I haven't been able to check ID Request for a while (I anticipate this happening soon), I will visit those other pages and do my best to sort them out. I believe Joyce Gross also visits the gall page from time to time, and I don't think there's anyone else who regularly comments on these sorts of images, so it seems safe to move them once they've been kicking around for a couple of weeks.

 
oh yes-- nice to know
i've always been puzzled where to put such stuff. thanks, Charley

I've created an article...
to address this issue from the point of view of contributors.

I incorporated some of the tips shared in this topic.

Please let me know how this can be improved.

 
the article...
is HERE
Great job!

 
nice job, Chuck
And thanks for the pointer, v! :)

Ken, we usually start from the back and work our way forward
We grab a large series of moth or butterfly or skipper or heteropteran images and move them to the guide. From there specialists identify them and move them deeper. We have avoided moving orthoptera, diptera, coleoptera, or hymenoptera because we have gotten grief in the past from experts who would prefer to work on those individually from ID Request, or because they prefer that images that have been identified be moved all the way into the guide rather than just the coleoptera page. Since you are trying to clear out ID Request without being a coleopteran expert, it is too time consuming to try to figure out if the IDs are correct. But we say go for it. We usually don't move large series of images from among the first 43 pages which is the first 1000 images. But you have 60 pages to play with after those! We would try to help, but not much computer time available to us here out on the west coast right now. Thanks

 
Thanks J&J -
I've also been starting from the back and working forward. Those sound like good general guidelines.

 
same here
i move a hundred or two submissions every now and then from ID Request starting from the oldest. My 'procedure':
  • I never touch leps, orthopterans, odes, or spiders (as ignorant of the 'culture' of these sections as I am);
  • I move IDed/IDable pix as deep into the Guide as possible;
  • I move most Diptera to the order page (syrphids, asilids, and tipulomorphs to respective pages) -- because they tend to move faster from there as our dipterists regularly visit those spots, but hardly ever the ID Request; and
  • I move unIDed hoppers to Auchenorhyncha even if I know family &c., 'cuz Dr Hamilton seems to ID everything very expediently (he's tremendously helpful, isn't he?) and there's never many abandoned hopper pix in either place.
It's a tedious but necessary janitorial job and although there's no rules, some procedural consensus seems to emerge. I would love to hear and take any advice from you guys re: how to make this process more efficient and whether [and how] should I change my ways if my actions create problems or extra work for somebody. Also, if you could formulate some guidelines about moving moth/orthoptera/ode/spider pix from ID Request, i'll gladly follow them.

 
Dr. Hamilton
Dr. Belov,
I agree: Dr. Hamilton is one of those dozen or so experts (please include yourself as well!!) who goes out of his way to help all of us rank amateurs. However, I'm not sure Auchenorhyncha is the best place for him. I find ID request gets the fastest responses from him (*usually* within a week), then cicadellidae (usually within a month). The only things in cicadellidae currently (that he hasn't already made a comment on) are 3 weeks old or less. Auchenorhyncha has images from April that he hasn't commented on. Has anyone ever asked Andy where he prefers to find things?? I know Frans only looks in Collembola, so I always try to put my springtails there and directd others to do the same...

 
Kevin--
thanks a lot for this info and considerations -- very helpful indeed.I will adjust my ways. Dr. Hamilton is apparently in the field or on vacation; i'm not it touch with him directly, but will sure try to let him know where are the pix awaiting his review, and to adjust my ways according to his preferences. I will be putting all the springtails in Collembola forthwith.

 
V, What do you think...
Is there a way we could have the various experts let us know exactly where they would like to look for their particular types of critters? Could we have a list somewhere? I've got no problems catering to the wishes of the fine people who donate their time here, but other than Frans and Andy, I don't really know where other experts prefer to find things...

 
exactly my point!
That's what i'm trying to figure out -- what are the appropriate guide sections for each group to ensure everything moves smoothly and efficiently. I'm completely out of touch with three major segments of BG, viz. spider, Odonata, and Lepidoptera communities -- and these taxa constitute the ID Request's slowest moving stock. I would love to hear from those heavily involved with these groups and will follow their advice.

 
Our process for what it's worth
We move spiders to Araneae, from where we and Lynette have been slowly moving images as deep into the spider pages as we can. The completely unknowns have been ending on Entelegynes and we hope to use that as the page to direct experts.

We move dragonflies to Anisoptera and damsels to Zygoptera and occasionally go through those pages to move images as deep in the guide as possible. There are several contributors who focus on Odonates, but we don't know exactly where they focus their work.

We move caterpillars to the Lepidoptera page. Then occasionally look through and see if any can be moved deeper. We avoid moving them to other than Family, Genus, or species. There are too many intermediate levels, subfamily, tribe, supergenus, whatever, etc. to be helpful. We would end up with unknown caterpillars scattered all over the guide.

We move moths to the no taxon Moth page. There are several BugGuide editors who specialize heavily in moths and we trust them to move images as appropriate. And as above we would not move to anything other than Family, Genus or species. In the past we have had the same unidentified moth on genus, tribe, subfamily, family, and superfamily pages based upon the knowledge base of the person placing them. It was crazy.

We move skippers to Hesperioidea. For the most part, it seems that they should be moved from there to at least genus if not species. It does seem that people do post to Hesperiinae, so that is a possibility but there doesn't seem to be any point to posting to Hesperiidae.

We move butterflies to Papilionoidea. Our feeling is that from there they should be moved only to a species page. Butterflies are well known enough, it seems to us, that they should be Id'd to species or frassed. The Lycaenids, specifically Polyommatinae might be an exception as a page to store Blues until an expert can sort them.

That's our process on those groups for what it is worth.

 
awesome, J&J -- your advice is worth a lot!
you make my life so much easier... will adhere religiously to your procedure

 
amateur's point of view
Dr. Belov, Thanks for bringing up these points, and please know that we amateurs find the help of you experts invaluable. We couldn't get by without your guys' help, so we do want to make it as painless as possible for you folks, and I am *not* looking for others to do all my moving for me. That being said, there are a number of reasons I don't always move my critters out of ID Request (or I post them there even though I know something about my critter:
  • As someone pointed out, a number of the experts trawl ID request (notable exception: Dr. Janssens - I always move Collembola into Collembola as I know that's where Dr. Janssens "lives".) :)
  • Ignorance and fear - sometimes as an amateur, I don't always feel comfortable moving it to its spot
  • Mistakes in the past - example: yellow jackets. I had a bunch of pics of yellow jackets that I *was* sure were all one species. Turns out I had 3 separate species. Only difference - eye ring. Since then, both ladybugs and yellow jackets get thrown into the general ID until I get a confirm.
  • 4) Second opinions - sometimes I don't want to move something the moment it's IDed, because I'm not sure of the diagnosis. I recently had about 12-15 flies ALL identified as Fannidae, and I was pretty sure some were not. In fact, one I *knew* was not. It was very helpful to have some of the other fly guys see them in ID request before they got moved.
I'm not saying it's ok no to move stuff, Dr. Belov, just giving you some of the reasons that some of us well-intentioned amateurs might not move things sometimes. Suggestions, all? Discussion?

It seems to be the easiest way to upload images
since the upload function is a part of the template. I have a nice Agriope shot but, can't seem to find a way to upload it. Here it is on another site.


 
Just go to ID Request or go to Argiope aurantia
and click on Images. Then click on Add an Image. It couldn't be easier to post images.

 
Posting to taxa pages is quit
Posting to taxa pages is quite simple once it is explained. Find the taxa level you want ot post to, in your case Agriope, then click the images tab. On that page there is a button which takes you to the upload form and which places the image into said taxa level when the upload is complete.

 
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