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Renia salusalis - Hodges#8378 (Renia salusalis)
Photo#1038775
Copyright © 2015
Peter Homann
Hodges #8287 Sober Renia- #8386 -
Renia salusalis
-
Tallahassee, Leon County, Florida, USA
July 12, 2014
Size: WS ~28mm (~18mm as shown)
At outdoor light. Provides July image for Florida if confirmed.
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Contributed by
Peter Homann
on 6 February, 2015 - 8:09pm
Last updated 16 April, 2019 - 5:29am
Moved
Moved from
Speckled Renia Moth
.
…
Steve Nanz
, 16 April, 2019 - 5:29am
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Moved to Renia adspergillus
Moved from
Moths
.
Tentative ID. See comments below.
…
Steve Nanz
, 8 February, 2015 - 5:08am
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Tentative or temporary?
Thank you Steve, for spending time on this one, and on some of my others. Looking at what I have in my files, I better stick with genus for those "deltoids" for a while. The size difference between
sobrialis
and
adspergillus
actually is quite small and perhaps within the error margin of measurements on fidgety live moths. As to the listed wingspans of pinned moths, they may not be all that reliable either as I have discussed
on the Moth Forum
.
…
Peter Homann
, 8 February, 2015 - 8:47am
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More Evidence
See comments by J. D. Roberts on one of my own images
here
. He mentions wing shape. Compare yours and mine to Mark's DNA tested example
here
. Looking at pinned and BOLD images, this wing shape, though not consistent within
adspergillus
does not seem to be found in
sobrialis
. That said, I'll leave a comment on my image for Jason and ask him to check yours.
…
Steve Nanz
, 8 February, 2015 - 11:15am
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Tentative
But maybe I should have placed it at the genus level. I place images to species as tentative IDs if I think think there is clear evidence supporting the ID and eliminates similar species which in this case there is. However the evidence may be bad. I'll try to find more updated descriptions and get more info from experts.
…
Steve Nanz
, 8 February, 2015 - 9:21am
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size?
I think it is Sober Renia but at least one other species can approach this appearance. Is the wingspread measurement as shown or is it what is would be if fully spread? I'm guess the former. I should be in the 25-30mm range.
…
Steve Nanz
, 7 February, 2015 - 7:56pm
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"Actual" wingspread
My wing"spread" measurements are from wingtip to wingtip of moths when wings are not horizontally extended. Estimated wing"span" in this case would come out to be about 28mm.
Thanks for your help with these moths!
…
Peter Homann
, 7 February, 2015 - 8:57pm
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Renia adspergillus
Smith's 1895 paper on Deltoid Moths
here
includes species descriptions and a key to
Renia
in which he mentions that
adspergillus
, formerly the now lumped species
larvalis
and
restrictalis
, and
sobrialis
are inseparable except by size. According to his measurements, this would be
adspergillus
.
R. sobrialis
is a little smaller. I don't know where the size numbers came from for the Vargo images at MPG for
adspergillus
but I suspect they are incorrect. Smith notes that Grote's measurements were different than his and concludes they were in error. This along with the rest of his explanation lead me to believe that Smith was thourogh.
It therefore appears that all of the identifications in these two species at BugGuide, including my own, are
not
reliable except for those specimens which were measured, dissected, or DNA tested. I'll dig around and see if there is more current information.
…
Steve Nanz
, 8 February, 2015 - 5:05am
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