Sitticus male - Attulus floricola

Moved

… Chad Heins, 28 April, 2020 - 8:39am

Moved

Moved from Sitticus.

… Ken Schneider, 15 May, 2015 - 4:15pm

S. sylvestris -

now seems the best fit, after getting input from Rod Crawford (see below) and Tim Manolis. The palps of palustris and sylvestris seem very similar to me, but the dorsal pattern is much closer to sylvestris...

Although the WSC doesn't formally recognize sylvestris, the species is apparently recognized by Wayne Maddison, and Tim pointed out to me that this is noted in Logunov and Kronestedt 1997: "Also, S. sylvestris Emerton has been recognised by W. P. Maddison as a separate species, being closely related to S. caricis (Westring) (B. Cutler, pers. comm.)".

So I think I'd like to move this to a new S. sylvestris species page, but I understand this might be a bit controversial given that we use the WSC as our gold standard...

… Ken Schneider, 5 May, 2015 - 5:27pm

Perhaps

a compromise could work for now. Under Araneomorphae there is a No Taxon page which has a description that reads: Unidentified spider egg sacs, webs, and retreats.

I would be in favor of creating a No Taxon page with a description that reads Sitticus sylvestris. That would allow it to appear in the Guide and yet be consistent with the WSC until the literature catches up. Your thoughts?

… Chad Heins, 5 May, 2015 - 7:38pm

Sure -

you mean a "no taxon" page under Sitticus? Sure, that sounds fine to me - good idea.

… Ken Schneider, 5 May, 2015 - 10:28pm

Yes

I would create it under Sitticus. I don't know if this has ever been done before, but this seems an appropriate time to make one.

… Chad Heins, 6 May, 2015 - 8:29am

Sounds good -

do you think we need to post something in the Arachnology Forum to get other input? Otherwise, I'm happy to create the no-taxon page (or you can) and move the images there now...

… Ken Schneider, 6 May, 2015 - 10:43am

Hmm...

Probably not a bad idea to post in Arachnology forum and/or Editors Forum before doing additional legwork. I'll let you make the page when the time comes; you're more than qualified.

… Chad Heins, 6 May, 2015 - 1:15pm

Done -

posted here:

http://bugguide.net/node/view/1063800

… Ken Schneider, 6 May, 2015 - 11:01pm

So far -

I've got one "vote" for just making a sylvestris species page with these sorts of caveats/comments noted there. If that's OK with you, Chad, I can make the page and you can feel free to edit it, etc...

… Ken Schneider, 15 May, 2015 - 2:39pm

I'm fine with that.

… Chad Heins, 15 May, 2015 - 3:13pm

From Rod Crawford -

who was kind enough to look at these images:

"I would suggest sylvestris (he linked to salticidae.org diagnostic drawings), palustris is typically more colorful. See my images:
http://crawford.tardigrade.net/journal/album7605.html
http://crawford.tardigrade.net/journal/album8224.html
The palps of palustris and sylvestris are similar but differ in size. The females differ reliably in spermathecae. In Washington I generally find palustris only in wetlands (marshes, both freshwater and estuarine, and bogs), not merely along stream courses"

… Ken Schneider, 4 May, 2015 - 11:13pm

Moved

Moved from Jumping Spiders. I'd like to keep these here for a while, at least until I get some additional input...

… Ken Schneider, 4 May, 2015 - 8:37pm

I think

this is S. floricola palustris which apparently is highly variable in its appearance. According to Richman et al. 2012, S. sylvestris has only been found in Ontario and Massachusetts whereas S. floricola palustris is widespread; that paper may not be current, but does suggest a certain likelihood. My vote is for the S. floricola palustris.

… Chad Heins, 4 May, 2015 - 4:03pm

Thanks Chad!

I don't disagree with you - just not certain yet. In terms of distribution, Rod Crawford has sylvestris on his WA state checklist, so that complicates things a little... I've emailed Rod to see if he has time to look at these images. Tim thinks that palustris is unlikely to have this appearance.

Do you agree that the palps of these two species look nearly identical? Maybe there are somatic characters which could separate them?

… Ken Schneider, 4 May, 2015 - 4:13pm

Just to confuse the issue

I went on the World Spider Catalog and S. sylvestris does not exist. Richman et al. 2012 mentions it with the author being Emerton, 1891. I'm not perfect, but I could only find an A. sylvestris Emerton, 1891 and that was lumped under S. floricola palustris. I think there's a reason that they are nearly identical with their palps. They may actually be considered the same species at this point. :)

… Chad Heins, 4 May, 2015 - 4:32pm

Yeah -

Tim and I have been discussing this issue "off line". Apparently most NA salticidologists think that sylvestris is a "real species" separate from palustris, if I understand it correctly, even if the WSC lumps them... There is a lot of unpublished data floating around out there, I guess...

… Ken Schneider, 4 May, 2015 - 4:57pm

That's why we hang on to spec

That's why we hang on to specimens. So that when taxonomy changes (and it always does), you still have a specimen that can be assigned properly. My vote is to move it to the recognized species and keep it in your back pocket. You could always rewrite the treatment for this genus in North America. :)

… Chad Heins, 4 May, 2015 - 7:32pm

S. palustris or sylvestris?

Dunking the palp in clove oil really helped reveal the sperm duct loop and made the RTA much more visible (two more palp photos added). The palp now seems a nice match to S. "floricola palustris" in Paquin and Duperre fig. 2254, and perhaps the habitus pattern could fit a lightly marked individual of this species? However, the palp of S. sylvestris also looks similar (thanks to Tim Manolis for pointing this out and trying to help me with this jumper)...

… Ken Schneider, 3 May, 2015 - 10:10pm