Puzzling - Orgyia detrita

ID info

The use of foam, to cover the eggs and the small black spot, visible at the base of the abdomen, (dorsal mid-line) might indicate that this is actually a female White-marked Tussock Moth, Orgyia leucostigma. However, let's make sure, before moving this image.
I placed two more posts of females into that species this morning. Both of them have that small black dash, on one or two segments. The other posts of female Orgyia detrita show the eggs deposited on a dry cocoon, but some of them also have the dorsal spot.

… Bob Biagi, 27 September, 2017 - 3:35pm

Fun to see this again

Always one of my favorite learnings from BugGuide.
I will add two more pictures on the hope that they will help.

John

… John Hartgerink, 28 September, 2017 - 9:37pm

Thanks for adding those shots. I think that she should be moved, but I would like a second opinion. So, I have asked some experts to take another look at this post. Hold on for now.

… Bob Biagi, 28 September, 2017 - 11:27pm

Females and oviposition habits

I have no experience with Orgyia detrita. The Featured Creatures website discusses O. detrita, O. leucostigma, and O. definita. It says, "At present, females can be identified to species only by association with their respective larvae (or in the case of Florida Orgyia detrita by association with their egg masses)." It goes on to say, "Detrita and definita females cover their eggs with a secretion and then rub setae from their bodies onto the secretion to form a protective layer over the eggs. Leucostigma females cover their eggs with a frothy secretion but do not cover the secretion with setae." Given that, I'm puzzled by the first statement--it sounds like the egg masses of detrita and definita are the same, and they meant leucostigma can be identified by its egg mass. However, in the photo above the female hasn't finished depositing the frothy covering, so we don't know whether she is going to finish by depositing her setae on top of that.

I only see one photo on BugGuide of a female detrita with eggs, and they are still being laid so it isn't clear what the frothy covering will look like:

As far as I know it would look the same as leucostigma's. So I would support moving John's photos up to genus; I don't know that we can be sure this is leucostigma.

Incidentally, here is a female definita with eggs--I think that species can be identified by its more yellow cocoon, and it seems that the frothy covering is much less substantial in that species:

The frothy covering may also be less substantial in detrita, but the photos on the Featured Creatures website seem ambiguous on that point. I note that Machele White observed of that detrita female: "After laying the eggs, she stuck scales from her body onto the egg mass." No mention of the frothy secretion, suggesting it wasn't a conspicuous, thick one like this. So Bob may well be right that John's female is leucostigma, I'm just not 100% sure at this point.

… Charley Eiseman, 29 September, 2017 - 7:36am

We added a comment in your text section

so that you could click on edit and see how it is done. Free free to edit or even delete that sentence if you don't want it there. We're enjoying your images immensely!

… john and jane balaban, 12 May, 2007 - 4:29pm

Edit comment looks good, thanks.

I think I see how edit text, but not how to insert a picture of another specimen.
I added two pictures of the "toothbrush caterpillars" that we see under ID Request.

Thanks for all your help on this and other bug ID's.
It sure helps to have stories to go along with the pictures.

… John Hartgerink, 12 May, 2007 - 6:10pm

Not exactly sure of your question,

so we changed the comment under your image so as to contain thumblinks to your recently posted caterpillars. If you click on edit under this image and scroll down through your commentary for the image, you will see the line we added and how we added the thumbnails. Hope this helps - lovely images!

… john and jane balaban, 12 May, 2007 - 9:55pm

Wingless Moths

I don't know which species- there are several- but wingless moths are not unheard of. In these species, the female releases a scent that the males can detect from great distances. While the female is wingless, the males aren't, and they home in on her to mate.

Here's one such species:

… Chuck Entz, 12 May, 2007 - 2:55pm

Thanks, I didn't know about wingless moths!

What fun!
We have had lots of tussock moth caterpillars ("toothbrush caterpillars") around.
Most have the orange dots on the sides, as discussed for orgyia detrita.
I have pictures of the caterpillars that I could post, but I don't think that it is "legal" to post them into this discussion and I don't know how to do links.
Many of ours look like those that are posted by Tunstall under orgyia detrita.

… John Hartgerink, 12 May, 2007 - 3:44pm