Bombus fervidus californicus - Bombus californicus

Moved

Moved from Golden Northern Bumble Bee.
If there was no page for this species it should have been left at genus level until a page was created. There are enough mistakes already in the guide.

… Beatriz Moisset, 8 May, 2008 - 6:58am

this was not necessarily a mistake

as there is genuine controversy about whether californicus is a full species or merely a subspecies or color variety of fervidus. More DNA data may be needed to resolve this question.

… John S. Ascher, 1 June, 2008 - 10:02am

Aha!

I added a note to the info page. In the meantime, do we leave them as is or move them again?

… Beatriz Moisset, 1 June, 2008 - 10:08am

Someone - I forget who - told us where to put these.

Timely provision of a new page would have eliminated this particular problem.

… Ron Hemberger, 8 May, 2008 - 10:28am

I am puzzled

Why is this in B. fervidus after John and Domingo said that it was B. californicus?
Shouldn't it be moved?

… Beatriz Moisset, 6 May, 2008 - 9:16pm

Puzzle solved.

At the time of this post, here was the best place for it for a couple of reasons. First, there was controversy over the name. Also, as I've explained elsewhere, there was no page for B. californicus. (See also Dr. Ascher's comment above.)

I think this and Cheryl's other related posts should be moved. To me, there's a major difference in the appearance of the two species in the images now at Bug Guide, unless you consider the uncommon golden B. calfornicus from William Ericson.

… Ron Hemberger, 7 May, 2008 - 9:17pm

"a major difference in the appearance"

This does not suffice to delimit species

… John S. Ascher, 1 June, 2008 - 10:03am

Thanks for the clarification

I'm beginning to understand species variation and appreciate your reinforcement.

… Ron Hemberger, 1 June, 2008 - 11:50am

Moved

Moved from Bumble Bees.

… Cheryl Moorehead, 29 July, 2007 - 4:44pm

Californicus

Just a comment: I guess californicus and fervidus are being treated as the same species. I don't know what the distinction between the two is, but apparently they are pretty similar species.

… Arthur Scott Macmillan, 9 January, 2008 - 2:46pm

Maybe Bombus californicus...

...which looks like vosnesenskii with a black head, and sometimes has those yellow markings near where the wings attach.

… Domingo Zungri, 22 May, 2007 - 7:05pm

I agree, this looks like B. californicus

a guide page seems appropriate

many californicus have far more yellow than do most individuals from California

… John S. Ascher, 24 June, 2007 - 7:22pm

What about B. fernaldae...

After looking at the image keys at Bumble Bees of the World at http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/projects/bombus/,
I then took the possibilities I came up with to the Discover Life site and looked at the ranges of the various Bombus that were possibilities and came up with B. fernaldae. See http://stri.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?guide=Bombus.
I was looking at the black "face", yellow "shoulders" and generally black abdomen (I can't remember if there were or weren't yellowish band(s) on the end of the abdomen).

… Cheryl Moorehead, 15 June, 2007 - 3:09pm

I don't think so.

B. fernaldae is a "cuckoo" species that lays its eggs in the nests of other, more industrious species of bumblebees; the workers of the host species raise the larvae. Cuckoo species do not have their hind legs modified to carry pollen, but the bee in the photo has modified hind legs and is carrying pollen.

… Domingo Zungri, 15 June, 2007 - 6:27pm

Interesting

I didn't know that. I'll think B. californicus, then. I'll, in the meantime, see if anyone else chimes in on this ID before I try to ask for a guide page.
Thank you very much.

… Cheryl Moorehead, 15 June, 2007 - 9:31pm