Users' class assignment

And you thought "no standards in entomology" was nasty

John Schneider: http://bugguide.net/node/view/1145320

And you thought my comment about no standards in entomology was nasty?
Remember your original comment? “there are no standards in entomology -- I think Mr. Penner means that rhetorically, and I'm just saying so for the benefit of kids and other folks who might stumble across his statement while trying to use this site to learn about entomology.” You later edited and softened the comment.

I notice you never called out Chad Neins, John S. Ascher, Scarabaeoid, and R. Berg for their comments. Do you think their statements encourage kids to use this site?

The most appalling comment was from John VanDyk. It doesn’t matter how over-worked the volunteers are, just as long as you send money.

My distaste for the field of entomology has just widened to include BugGuide.

“If you can’t feed a hundred people, then just feed one.” – Mother Teresa

… Lee Penner, 5 October, 2015 - 11:19am

What in particular do you find objectionable?

Who actually said anything nasty?

Why shouldn't someone using the site in an extraordinary manner be encouraged to contribute financially? How could doing so be construed as appalling? I suppose you must find the entire world of academia and conservation entirely repugnant if that's your attitude.

How is it helpful to imply that people called out by name are making appalling comments and discouraging kids without offering any particulars or any substantive critique whatsoever?

How was it responsible to suggest to kids and others that there are no standards and that MPG should trump the ICZN with respect to nomenclature?

… John S. Ascher, 6 October, 2015 - 7:57am

Ascher

You're so far off base you don't even understand what's being said here. So back off!

… Lee Penner, 6 October, 2015 - 11:35pm

deleted

… Will Chatfield-Taylor, 7 October, 2015 - 5:46am

Not the only one

Ames High had a biology assignment that involved posting to BugGuide earlier this year as well.

The solution, in my opinion, is twofold:

(1) all images that are submitted as part of a class assignment should be tagged as such. The next version of BugGuide will have the ability to filter by tag. Thus, if you want to see ID Request without class assignment photos you can. Or if you only want to see class assignment photos you can.

(2) teachers who do not intend to identify their own students' photos should think seriously about making a donation or doing a fundraiser to make (1) happen faster.

… John VanDyk, 1 October, 2015 - 9:29pm

I agree

with Beatriz's comments below. I keep thinking about this poor student who's receiving emails every time someone gets upset again.

The issue in this situation is that this community of naturalists has some norms that we all accept. A perusal of our Do's and Don'ts outlines the common courtesy/etiquette that makes this a helpful community with common goals. These guidelines are not being followed very well with this project and when such rules/social norms are violated it is natural for a community to get upset.

I think the biggest violation is that essentially we have an instructor who by requiring students to post 20 images is essentially posting multiple images daily to ID Request through his students. We haven't seen the procrastinators in his course posting yet, but they will post eventually and I expect a flood of poor images when they do (these are not typically the best students, speaking from experience).

The other big violation is the following taken from that list: Don't spend all your time here posting photos without taking time to help others by offering encouragement, pointing them in the direction of an identification, or helping to organize the guide. There are a lot of great people here on BugGuide who give of their time and talents and love to help others. But if a number of teachers and professors follow the path exemplified here, we risk losing our experts whose role changes from "part of a group effort" to "the one being used by the many."

I thoroughly appreciate the interest in engaging students with this website. We need to get young people noticing and interacting with the natural world around them. The design of this project though makes the majority of the students users of this community and not members of this community. I, for one, would rather see the latter.

… Chad Heins, 2 October, 2015 - 8:00am

students providing IDs

I definitely like the general idea of students expected to use BugGuide--but as cheins notes, perhaps helping or encouraging to others should be an important part of using the site? As Guy mentioned below, most entomology courses require students to produce their own IDs-- what if all the students were also expected to give 10 IDs, say, thumb-linking a similar image from the guide? This could transform their impact on the site. I imagine that some students might even end up becoming regular commenters.

… Even Dankowicz, 4 October, 2015 - 4:13pm

I had similar thoughts

Each student could register and then be able to comment and help identify insects for others. I think a student would learn more from having to dig through the Guide for a half an hour to offer a possible ID than posting a blurry image from their cell phone. Maybe each student could be assessed on a combination of pictures posted and comments left.

… Chad Heins, 4 October, 2015 - 4:28pm

Comments

Is it possible to transfer the comments under the Neoscoma post the Balabans mentioned to this forum?
Such a long and passionate discussion belongs in the forums rather than under an image

… Beatriz Moisset, 2 October, 2015 - 12:33am

Ray Fisher

commented on the Arkansas project here

… john and jane balaban, 29 September, 2015 - 2:29pm

ahh...

So 120 plus students new to insect identification are going to place 20 images each to species pages? or is Ray taking care of all the "work"? Thats 2400 images that will need to be scrutinized....Yipe....

… Guy A. Hanley, 29 September, 2015 - 4:32pm

Indeed.

Ray expects the BugGuide volunteers to provide the 2400 IDs. See the discussion that the Balabans linked to.

… R. Berg, 30 September, 2015 - 8:55pm

Ridiculous

That is ridiculous...

… Will Chatfield-Taylor, 1 October, 2015 - 2:42pm

I kinda thought so too

Not sure it was well thought out. Teaching entomology without identification done by the student seems useless in my opinion,

… Guy A. Hanley, 1 October, 2015 - 9:45pm

Thanks

I hadn't seen that discussion

… John Schneider, 29 September, 2015 - 3:17pm

Class Assignment

I was wondering what this was. I had some of these appear in Mantodea.

… John Stanard, 25 September, 2015 - 6:50am