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Photo#1283082
What moth? - Catocala neogama

What moth? - Catocala neogama
Loudonville, Ashland County, Ohio, USA
August 20, 2016
Size: I think 3 inches
It was a good 2 inches - at least. More like 3.

looking over this one again
This could actually be a worn female subnata.

 
Agreed
Honestly, that’s the way I’m leaning. The pale, open subreniform spot is a good indicator for subnata. I learned several years back after handling hundreds of neogama/subnata from various collections, that giving a confident ID based on a photo is tricky business; especially after we sequenced a couple dozen, a fair number of which proved to have been previously ID’d incorrectly.

I’ve been keeping note of any comments/suggestions you’ve made on these suspect subnata, and I’ll take some time and go through them later, comparing them to the photo library I made from the collections. I already agree with quite a few of your corrections, a couple not, but I’ll probably jump into them this weekend and see if we can sort them out a little better. Thanks for taking a look through them.

 
Different basal areas
female subnata:
http://v3.boldsystems.org/pics/ABCNA/IMG_2058%2B1160411870.JPG

similar looking neogama:
neogama:
http://v3.boldsystems.org/pics/QUNOB/IMG_8746.CR2%2B1223667102.jpg


From what i've seen the neogama that look the most similar (band on fw) to female subnata have a lot of dark shading around the dashes in the basal area, subnata doesn't.

 
basal area shading
I've noticed that trend as well, and for the most part it looks to hold up throughout most collected and sequenced specimens. I'm just not certain if it can be considered truly diagnostic though because there are enough exceptions to add doubt. I honestly wouldn't mind making it a quasi-diagnostic guideline here on BugGuide given that the scale of the evidence tips in favor of the basal area shading distinction. It would certainly give us a better template for placing the neogama and subnata, if not with some degree of certainty, at least where each specimen most likely fits per the diagnostic and quasi-diagnostic guidelines.

 
basal area doesn't work for neogama like this
https://bugguide.net/node/view/1246563/bgimage

similar basal area to female subnata but the difference is the band on the fw isn't as defined, especially the lines that connect the am line/subreniform spot.

http://v3.boldsystems.org/pics/ABCNA/IMG_3693%2B1169181776.JPG

 
.
Seems neogama that have a more defined band have a darker overall fW

 
.
this one also. I think they are female subnata.

Moved
Moved from Underwings.

.
I'd say worn neogama

Moved

Moved
Moved from ID Request.

One of the Catocala
Perhaps Species Catocala subnata - Youthful Underwing - Hodges#8797 but others are similar so have an expert weigh in.

 
Thanks Grammazoo :)
You are onto something!

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