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Photo#1504199
Possible Eupeodes perplexus - Eupeodes perplexus - female

Possible Eupeodes perplexus - Eupeodes perplexus - Female
Riverside-Albert, Albert County, New Brunswick, Canada
September 16, 2015

Images of this individual: tag all
Possible Eupeodes perplexus - Eupeodes perplexus - female Possible Eupeodes perplexus - Eupeodes perplexus - female Possible Eupeodes perplexus - Eupeodes perplexus - female Possible Eupeodes perplexus - Eupeodes perplexus - female Possible Eupeodes perplexus - Eupeodes perplexus - female Possible Eupeodes perplexus - Eupeodes perplexus - female

Moved

Looking at image 1504200, the
Looking at image 1504200, the cells at base could be clear without microtrichia and the black markings on sternites seem to fit perplexus.
I am leaning to perplexus. Safe in Eupeodes, subgenus Metasytphus.

 
Thanks, Bill!
I know it is darn near impossible to ID these from pics in the field. I have been meaning to collect some of these to ID from specimens and I will, one of these summers.

 
Super. I think the sternites
Super. I think the sternites are sufficiently differerent in some species to be able to separate them. See my comments on 1991360 and 1565129.

Moved
Moved from Syrphini.

Looking at this image and 150
Looking at this image and 15042i8 the base of the wing doesn`t look without microtrichia but it is impossible to be certain. It is however definitely Eupeodes.The R2+3 vein is more sinuous than Lapposyrphus, dipping before tip. The narrowed portion of cell r2+3 which is created by the converging of veins R2+3 and R4+5 is longer in Lapposyrphus and Lapposyrphus has the R4+5 vein curving more abruptly.

Second look.
Second look.

 
I can also appreciate how tricky this is...
This morning I went and had a long look at a series of individuals that have been ID'd as Lapposyrphus and in some, the dip is very slight. I will henceforth always take a closer look and I hope I won't forget again to evaluate that feature. I sense it will remain a tricky call in some cases.

I don't know how much the trichosity in the wings (or lack thereof) differs in reality between Lapposyrphus and various Eupeodes (Metasyrphus) species. It is mentioned under Lapposyrphus in the draft guide: "It is recognized by the R4+5 vein curving up into cell r2+3; the eye is bare and wings are densely microtrichose on at least the apical third", so it could look very similar to E. perplexus in that regard.

I do feel that somewhat exceptionally (usually hard to see in pics), the lack of trichosity in the basal third of the wing is visible and not an artifact of the lighting in several of the pictures of this individual (especially 1504198 and 1504203, when looked at full size). When I compare with the line drawings provided in the draft guide of NE Syrphidae, I still feel it is most consistent with Eupeodes (Metasyrphus) perplexus. So, if the consensus is that it is indeed Eupeodes (Metasyrphus), then E. perplexus still gets my vote ;)

However, please know that I can live with leaving it in Syrphini too, at least for time being. I know I will endeavour to track some more down and more and better pictures of flies that look like this at home this year (now knowing better what to look for and what features to highlight). Most importantly, I will pick up some specimens to help resolve the matter with greater certainty. It may be that both are here in the yard in similar numbers!

Once again, thank you both so much for your help, in all ways. I am certainly learning lots! I do hope in the near future we can populate a new species page with images of this species that we are more certain belong under that label.

Finally, E. perplexus is indeed here in New Brunswick, as there are dots on the map that are assigned to it here in the upcoming guide. My colleague John Klymko, Dr Skevington's former student, has collected them from several locales in NB. It may even be as common as Lapposyrphus. Now to sort out which are which and figure out where they are around here!

 
It would be great if you coll
It would be great if you collect a few specimens and then you could also post pinned specimens with the characters visible in the pictures. In general people always underestimate how difficult Syrphini are to identify from pictures... So it is great if we have people interested in this group and following up with these problems...

 
Will do!
In the meanwhile, I am going to post a couple of pics right now of my first encounter with Lapposyrphus (I think), back in 2013, with features showing relatively well. :D

Second look.
Second look and I have changed my mind on this one.
Submarginal cell between R2+3 and R4+5 vein, is narrowed for a greater distance in Lapposyrphus lapponicus than in this specimen and now think it is Eupeodes, subgenus Metasyrphus.

Moved

Moved
Moved from Syrphini.

I think this Lapposyrphus lap
I think this Lapposyrphus lapponicus again.... female.
I have sent it to Martin.

 
What about the dip in R4+5?
In the first pic, the left wing is very clear, and the dip does not seem to be there?

 
Yes, might just be Eupeodes..
Yes, might just be Eupeodes..... dip is not deep enough.....

 
Thanks!
I will be collecting specimens here this summer, and this will be one of my principal targets. I hope that will resolve this more certainly, but I feel like (hope) these pics show enough to confirm the ID anyway. If nothing else, it has certainly given me a better grounding in the features that we need to see to get to an ID!

 
If you have specimens, it wil
If you have specimens, it will be no problem for me to ID them.... it is only difficult with pictures...

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