Make "ID Request" Great Again

This is a complex issue

Some people who already know the group or have a good idea about a final identification put images in ID Request initially and temporarily, because they know that certain editors will see it there and are likely to be willing and able to quickly confirm and move. This is acceptable.

Problems arise when a long-time BG user already knows the group but parks it in ID Request indefinitely or, far worse, moves it from a correct guide placement back to ID Request (Hey everyone, keep looking at my outstanding photo!), even though no editor is evidently keen to comment in a timely fashion, and then complains when someone just trying to be helpful contributes an "obvious" ID for their image or moves it into the guide (where it belongs).

… John S. Ascher, 14 March, 2019 - 4:10am

I agree.

I find myself reluctant in that situation to move an image to the most specific taxon *I* am comfortable with, in part because I fear "insulting" the knowledge of the person posting. I'm not sure how to "cure" this revolving door other than the route I suggested.

… Eric R. Eaton, 14 March, 2019 - 11:17am

Today I tried, but failed.

Please look at this and read the comments. https://bugguide.net/node/view/1640374#2780817

… eaglebeach, 5 March, 2019 - 5:27pm

ID Request Is Great! I am sorry I am the probem.

Hi Eric,

My guess is that most of you know how unique and amazing bugguide is! There is truly nothing that compares.

I am perhaps not a newbie, but that is perhaps the most dangerous time for anyone to post things as I could easily be wrong. If I think I need confirmation, you should trust me that I do. I’m no longer a newbie, but I am very, very far from being an expert. I still need help. I thought bugguide also wanted our input. How would I know if a cool creature is unique, or rare, or environmentally valuable?

Posting things to the level I feel comfortable with does not currently work. I experimented with that in a variety of ways after advice from a knowledgeable and helpful person on bugguide. Most of the time, I never get a response.

Sincerely, Lynn Strauss (aka eaglebeach)

… eaglebeach, 4 March, 2019 - 3:29pm

No apologies necessary....

I am not pointing fingers at any particular individual. Many users here will post in ID request when they already know at least what family the creature belongs to. They should be posting the image to that family, then....And it is the nature of the Bugguide "beast" that it can take months, even years, before an expert specialist gets around to confirming or improving an ID. BUT, you are far more likely to get faster and better results if you post at the lowest level of taxonomy you are already confident in. That is all I am saying. I am trying to help both regular users *and* expert specialists to get the best results.

… Eric R. Eaton, 5 March, 2019 - 10:06am

Programming

I have a certain level of knowledge. I cannot yet correctly determine if the knowledge I think I have is valid. My guess is that I am not alone. if you look at my attempts earlier that I shared you will see that I failed. I thought I was sure. I am not an expert.

Real experts should not be expected to validate mistakes by people like me.

Programming could make things better for everyone, but my guess is that those funds are not available.

Bugguide needs leverage for funding. I have no money but I do want to point out that Bugguide is a win/win/win. Iowa State University has established itself as a leader in the field of Entomology. Iowa State's taxonomy and classifications have become the norm. The scientific world wins because in one place, all the data is abvailable, I win because I have a place to learn from others.

I could easily suggest basic changes that have probably been suggested by others. I would be happy to be a beta tester for changes if bugguide wants to do them.

I want to say that I feel very lucky to have Bugguide as my resource. I truly appreciate all of what everyone does.

… eaglebeach, 5 March, 2019 - 5:48pm

BugGuide 2.0

There has been a big update to the site in the works for ages now, they recently had a fund raiser to hire people to work on it. I don’t know what changes will be in there. Eric was just venting. I hope you got the lenses, the snow delayed things for a bit but I sent them out a few weeks ago. :) Placing at order is fine for spiders, I’m also getting into the habit of checking most recent so I can catch misfiles and find things that can be narrowed down further.

… Laura P., 5 March, 2019 - 6:33pm

Laura P.

Thank you so much for the lenses. I cant wait to try them out but so far the weather here in Maryland has been yucky when I have had time. Thankfully spring is just around the corner:)

Lynn

… eaglebeach, 6 March, 2019 - 5:56pm

You’re welcome ...

glad to hear you got them. I hope Spring is around the corner, it was misleadingly nice yesterday and frigid today.

… Laura P., 6 March, 2019 - 7:25pm

P.S.

Kaufman Field Guide to Insects of North America is my favorite of all of my field guides.

I also observe animal behavior. I think I have an answer to something you mentioned was a mystery in the 2007 version that I have. Perhaps you have already figured it out.

Somewhere I think I typed up a draft of my theory. I will send it to you when I find it.

… eaglebeach, 4 March, 2019 - 3:36pm

Thank you.

Thank you for the kind compliment. I just replied to your other comment here, too.

… Eric R. Eaton, 5 March, 2019 - 10:07am

It gets to me too,

I think a few things are going on though. Some of the people who do this are people who don’t realize they’re not newbies anymore - they’ve made mistakes in the past when they were so sure they were right and those misfiles were caught and corrected and now they are afraid of misfiling something. Some really are new to this and made good guesses but feel they need confirmation. They won’t know species xyz can’t be determined at this time without a microscope examination unless someone bothers to tell them. Some of them are focused on submitting thousands of images (a lot of them great images) and have been more focused on the photography then actually learning how to ID things themselves and they wind up submitting multiples of common things - some of these people eventually submit a lot of really great things too so I try not to let that get to me because I don’t want to discourage them. Also the ratio of active casual members to editors/experts has shifted and not in our favor. Sometimes it looks like it’s something no one can identify, but it just needs the right person to look at it. My personal issue and maybe yours too (and this is on us, not the site) is that I want to just focus on one area of the Guide and make it nice and orderly, fill out the info pages, make maps ... but I keep letting myself get distracted by shiny new random images, I am all over the place.

… Laura P., 1 January, 2019 - 12:10pm

:-)

"....shiny new random images." Hahahaha! For me, between the complications of ID request, the lack of tact (and sometimes civility) of other editors, I am mostly staying away from Bugguide, spending much more time on iNaturalist, Flickr. I need to revisit Project Noah, too. I generally find those to be friendlier communities now. I certainly respect Bugguide as a resource, but some of the people have gotten on my nerves for awhile now, present company excluded.

… Eric R. Eaton, 1 January, 2019 - 2:12pm

I’ve done a few ...

IDs on Project Noah and iNaturalist but never connected with the communties there, granted I never stay long. Speaking just for spiders unless things have changed the IDs are all over the place on both and I find it overwhelming. For me BugGuide feels the most like home, curmudgeons and all. iNaturalist is my favorite for help with international IDs but for North America BugGuide is always my first choice.

I don’t know if you ever got it but I sent you a message on Facebook a few weeks ago about a Wolf Spider ID.

… Laura P., 5 January, 2019 - 8:45pm

Thank you and apology....

I finally messaged you back on Facebook, but admit I got intimidated by the code that followed your text. Very appreciative of the correction on that spider! New species for me. :-)

… Eric R. Eaton, 5 January, 2019 - 11:24pm

Sorry, that code...

was intended to be an embedded image of your spider. It links to the image.

… Laura P., 6 January, 2019 - 12:08am

Suggestion?

Are you suggesting that we place something akin to "If you already know the family or subfamily or genus, PUT YOUR IMAGES THERE!" at the top of ID Request, or just venting about why you find that particular forum to be not worth your own time? If the latter, then J&J have good advice. The signal to noise level increases significantly towards the end. I just tried it out myself and discovered a wonder treasure waiting for placement since August:

… Edward L. Ruden, 31 December, 2018 - 10:13pm

Both.

A little bit of both: venting and suggesting something that will, I think, reduce the clutter of ID Request. I have been to the far end of those pages several times, and am usually as stumped as everyone else, but yeah, that is probably what *should* be in ID request: total mysteries, and posts from the curious, casual user and "beginner" for lack of a better term to describe aspiring naturalists and entomologists.

… Eric R. Eaton, 1 January, 2019 - 12:21am

Hi Eric,

Hope all is well. Don't know exactly what would interest you, but the last ten pages or so of ID Request might fit the bill. They tend to be images of weird things that most of us don't have a clue on and we could all learn something from what you find and describe there. Happy New Year!

… john and jane balaban, 31 December, 2018 - 9:07am