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Sympistis definita - Hodges#10151.1 (Sympistis definita)
Photo#2077669
Copyright © 2022
Leslie Goethals
Sympistis? -
Sympistis definita
Eastern Sierra, Mono County, California, USA
August 16, 2021
~7100'elevation, Rattlesnake Grade.
Attracted to UV light.
Images of this individual:
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Contributed by
Leslie Goethals
on 7 January, 2022 - 8:16am
Last updated 9 February, 2022 - 11:06am
Moved
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Butterflies and Moths
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…
Steve Morris
, 9 February, 2022 - 11:06am
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MPG
Image added to MPG. I agree with all that you've said.
…
Steve Nanz
, 11 February, 2022 - 10:55am
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S. definita vs S. dunbari
Hi Steve
I cross post with Leps and iNat & did so with this observation. Chuck Harp made this comment on this on iNat:
"http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/species.php?hodges=10151
Check also for Sympistis dunbari."
Could you please add as to why you chose this ID?
If the vicinity of the host plant makes a difference in the observation,
the host plant listed for S. dunbari is Ocean Spray (Holodiscus discolor).
I double checked with CalFlora & iNaturalist & those observations are exactly where I'd expect to see Holodiscus--at the higher elevations, not in the vicinity of my location (7100').
Since I can't be 100% sure that it's not growing in the riparian area below & across the way from my location, I have a query out with a BLM botanist.
Thank you!
…
Leslie Goethals
, 10 February, 2022 - 7:45am
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more info
I largely based my determination upon images at MPG and within the Troubridge (2008) revision of Oncocnemidini
sensu
now linked on this species page. The really dark marking of the AM area on your moth near the inner margin and the extensive dark marking in the ST area matched up best with the Troubridge image of
definita
. I would think that Troubridge would have selected what he felt were the two best images to represent these species. Your moth also seemed to match up better with images at MPG. Now looking at images of both species at BOLD and PNW Moths, this appearance factor is not so clear to me as far as making a species call. Unfortunately, the Troubridge revision only has photos of these two species and no discussion. However, the discussion at PNW Moths is somewhat helpful regarding habitat. I tried looking at elevation and preferred food source, but that does appear to make much of difference between the two species. I think the most critical factor could be habitat.
S. dunbari
appears to prefer rain forest to moderately dry mixed hardwood/pine forest, whereas
definita
is found in much drier conditions including deserts and foothills of the Great Basin. From what you have told me about the habitat where this was found, I do not picture this as moderately dry mixed hardwood/pine forest. With all that said, I am sure you have seen that PNW Moths suspects that these two species may in fact be just one species. So we may be doing all of this work for nothing!
…
Steve Morris
, 10 February, 2022 - 4:21pm
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Thanks
Thanks for this, I posted it on my iNat observation. Location is definitely dry, at the base of Pinyon-Juniper Woodland. There is an 11,400’ peak almost directly above the site. I agree with your ID.
Botanist said Holodiscus could very well be in and around the Aspen. I will check when plants start leafing out in spring.
Regarding appearance, I’m noticing the appearance of many of the observations from this site are fairly saturated in pigment, whether due to “freshness” or just the nature of the area. PNW moths stated S. definita was more a powdery gray & that’s not the case here. Provia argentata is one example that comes to mind, since it’s a favorite & it’s common at my location. Even a worn moth has more reddish brown color than others I’ve seen posted online.
Chuck commented as I was composing this!
“Thanks for those comments. I get definita here in Colorado, DNA barcoded to definita, where I had assumed dunbari before. Now we contend with a recently described species ferrirena http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/species.php?phylo=931927.1 that is also in this group.”
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/104518976#activity_comment_871e795f-e6dd-451a-bb8c-183b2c23c4dd
Thanks again Steve, I appreciate the ID & the time you’ve spent on this.
…
Leslie Goethals
, 11 February, 2022 - 5:55am
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Moved
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Steve Morris
, 7 February, 2022 - 10:55pm
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Sympistis dunbari
Perhaps Sympistis dunbari?
…
John Morgan
, 7 January, 2022 - 4:24pm
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