...for M. andrei, but I'd like to be able to rule out M. stoddardi. Gordon, could you please elaborate on what characteristics are necessary for separating these two species? It appears as though Ron has regular access to this colony at Riley (please also see his earlier post) and he may be able to get photos which prove more definitive if he knows what to look for. Thanks!

I think we need the page for the other person's post.

...this other post, I definitely would want to see someone confirm that ID before creating a new page.

Those ants look more like P. rugosus to me.

I understand your caution.

With a good lateral view, esp showing the spines should be able to tell. In M. andrei they are quite long (propodeal spines strongly divergent and more than twice as long as distance between their bases ), M. stoddardi are typically much shorter, (propodeal spines various, but often no more than 1.5 times as long as distance between their bases). A good full face view would help as it would allow us to see the base of the antennal scapes which are also diagnostic for these species.

...for the specific info on anatomical features necessary for making a clear ID. I still have so much too learn... I had to look-up where to find the propodeal spines! But, in the process, I found this awesome illustrated/photographic glossary which is going to prove very useful for me in the future.

Gordon, from looking at the enlarged version of Ron's middle image on my computer screen, I measured the distance between the spines at ~3-4 mm and the length of the spine at ~13-14 mm. I think that should should make it M. andrei, right?

I agree with that interpretation of things. So M. andrei.

I will create a new page later tonight... Gordon, can you refer me to any online or printed references (re: the relative ratio of the propodeal spines) to add to the Info page?

Ron, I will move the images for both posts from Riley, but any further close-up images you can get would be a great addition. (Be kind to your knees though, eh? *smile*)

The only reference I have in front of me is an unpublished manuscript my father was working on prior to his death.

...on the Info page to your comments here. My hope is simply that more people will see the useful diagnostic info you provided on that main page, in case they don't happen to read your comments here. Again, thanks for your assistance!

Glad to help. Shall look and see if I can find anything as reference as well. Actually the "Ants of Nevada" by George and Jeanette Wheeler has a nice key to Messor in it although they call them Veromessor an old name for the genus.

But, thus far, I refuse to kneel! (Actually, the problem isn't pain, but a matter of getting up once I get down.)

Knee problems have kept me from shooting at lower angles, but I think I'm ready to go to ground again.

If an editor sees this, I think we need a new page. Also, there's an earlier posted candidate for Messor andrei.