Wild adults were recorded by a lepidopterist in 1992 - can it be assumed that they've all disappeared since then? Maybe they have, but lack of evidence doesn't prove non-existence.

Unless there's an accepted time limit saying that "after X number of years, it's officially considered extirpated." The opposite does apply to birds - a non-native species must live wild for 15 years before it's officially established. I don't know if it works the other way, or applies to animals other than birds.

In "Butterflies and Moths of North America" the cynthia is shown as being in some states in the northeast. Also a verified sighting of cynthia cocoons in Missouri January 1978. The host plant, Tree of Heaven, is shown as noxious in 46 states.

Here'a a link.
http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Samia-cynthia

I met a guy at the Cradle of Birding Festival today (at the John Heinz National Wildlife Refuge at Tinicum) and he said he had found it in the wild in the 80s and 90s, and he was talking with another lepidopterist... Long story short, I think I volunteered to join a team to find and photograph it in the wild if it is still out there. I'll let you know if anything comes of it.

I recently corrected this error by putting this information in the comment box under the photo.
Eric

although the reference from Abigail on the other page suggests that there are some established populations in the Northeast, which might make it inappropriate for that page? This gets complicated, I think...

Just because they did and may still occur in the Northeast, and they may have once or might now occur in Maryland doesn't mean that this data is valid. They are basically pets and their location and time is related to the owner and their being raised by that person. Here are a few pets that don't appear on our data maps and are just "pretty pictures".
http://bugguide.net/node/view/241770/bgimage

agree for sure that the location data should be removed - my point is that since they may be naturally occuring in our area, isn't it a good idea to have photos and a guide page for this moth so that contributors have something to compare their caterpillar/moth to?

And can it be proved that these individuals are in fact reared from captive parents? The original posts and comments aren't clear on that - comments mention a friend who is rearing captives, but doesn't say that those are from captive parents, or that these individuals are the friend's.

I've posted a comment asking for clarification. If it turns out these are the larvae of captive individuals, I will stand down; but if they are from the wild, that should be clearly stated. We should all be on the same page, whether these insects get a Guide page or not!

My very first comment on August 1 stated that these were hand reared. I am/was unaware of the protocol. Regrettably, I assumed that people commenting would see my original comment that these were hand raised. It recently dawned on me that I should have put this info in the coment box with the photos. I am sorry for the confusion I created.
Eric

The first comment on this image asks, "Did you find these in the wild?" The response (the August 1 comment) is titled "Yes: Samia cynthia" - I took that as meaning "Yes, they are from the wild." The text of the response, "I met a man who is rearing them," made me think that you'd seen his in captivity, then found them in the wild and recognized them as the same species.

So I made assumptions too, based on my reading of it. I was so happy to see these caterpillars that I jumped to a conclusion and strongly defended my position - incorrectly, as it turned out, but not inaccurately according to the cited literature. This species has been recorded in the wild w/in the past 20 years, and I still don't think lack of recent evidence proves that it's not here anymore.

(Maybe my birding background got me stuck on the 20-year thing - that's a recent record for rare birds. I still haven't given up on the ivory-billed woodpecker.)

Now he is adding more without commenting, until prodded.

I made a few mistakes in my postings yesterday. I corrected the mistakes as soon as I was made aware of them. I did not deliberately try to mislead you or be unfair to you. Please accept my apology for offending you and misleading anyone at buguides.

I am a novice in entomology and macro photography. I have come a long way in the past 3 months thanks to bugguides and the people here that share my new passion. Please understand that I will never intentionally miss-label a photo or purport it to be something it isn’t. I love this site and sharing my images, having help in identifying the insects and looking at everyone else’s photographs brings me joy. This site is almost addicting and I would never purposely do anything that would give people a negative impression of me.

Eric

PS I stated in my very first comment on August 1st, these are hand raised. From the discussion that has followed I thought you aware of this fact. I found your discussions quite interesting and I didn’t realize you were unaware that these pics were from hand raised stock or that I had done something wrong or even how to fix the problem.

In the past we have accepted vacation shots from “south of the border” for species that were once reported to have strayed into Texas. Other times we have rejected them. Sometimes we accept indoor butterfly garden shots for species that were once reported to have strayed into Texas/Florida. Other times we have rejected them.

I posted these images because I thought they were beautiful. I thought members of bugguides might enjoy seeing them. However, if posting these images is not appropriate I will not post them.
Eric

these are hand reared as stated in my first comment on August 1. Sorry for not responding earlier. I edited the pics to state that they are hand raised.
Eric

S. cynthia's introduction to northeastern US includes parts of Maryland, and it was recorded there in 1960. Which is a pretty long time ago, but still, Maryland could be a location where a naturalized "wild" population remains.

Reference:

The Wild Silk Moths of North America P.M. Tuskes, J.P. Tuttle, M.M. Collins (1996) Cornell University Press.

See pages 185-186 and Map 33 (available in Google Books preview - this link works now, don't know if it'll remain valid forever).

I wouldn't agree that a reappearance of an exotic species is a good thing. I hope the person raising them isn't planning to release them.

This exotic species feeds only on the exotic tree of heaven, Ailanthus altissima which was also introduced in the 1800s and has since become a serious invasive weed tree that is found widely in large cities and urban areas (the areas where the cynthia moth can be found). There would be nothing wrong with releasing an already established exotic species that feeds on an invasive plant AND produces a beautiful moth. This species, like many other saturniids, dont rely on large populations to survive, as the mating techniques allow there to be fairly limited numbers of individuals per mile. This is why many of the large saturniid moths aren't as easily found as other lepidoptera in the same area.

Actually, I already knew they wouldn't be a problem. Just a matter of principle with me.

I'm well aware that pheromones help silk moths find mates at low population levels. But the population declines among some silk moths are generally attributed to biological control not working the way people expected when Compsilura concinnata was released. Obviously, there have been some great successes with biological control (I wrote a M.A. thesis on Charles Valentine Riley), but I don't think enhancing the population of an exotic species just because it doesn't seem as though it would be a problem is appropriate.

I know that any exotic species if it isn't substantially beneficial there is no reason that it should be kept around. I think that's the idea with this species, it does eat an invasive tree but not to the point where it would fix the problem. Samia cynthia in the US is merely something us moth enthusiasts have to look hope to come across on our searchings, and I know that if I came across a healthy adult wild in the US I wouldn't kill it, unlike a healthy adult gypsy moth. I hope my point is understandable.

I met a man who is raising them. As soon as I saw your post it jogged my memory.
Eric