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Photo#344917
Female and Male - Steatoda grossa - male - female

Female and Male - Steatoda grossa - Male Female
Corvallis, Oregon, USA
June 15, 1975
These are some some drawings I made of this species in the mid 70s, based on specimens found in Corvallis, Oregon. The discoloration at the bottom is where I had scotch-taped a label.

Images of this individual: tag all
Female and Male - Steatoda grossa - male - female Female and Male - Steatoda grossa - male - female Female - Steatoda grossa - female Female - Steatoda grossa - female Female - Steatoda grossa - female Male - Steatoda grossa - male Male - Steatoda grossa - male Female - Steatoda grossa - female

Speaking of drawings...
I have chosen to add this comment here because most of the people that I would like to have read it are already here, except for Lynette and Jay Barnes, I think.

I was wondering if any of you have a labeled pedipalp drawing that could be added to the pedipalp glossary page? There are many terms (like 'paramedian apophysis') that are used elsewhere in the guide and I think it would be nice to eventually have a palp diagram that people can refer to. So...nothing imperative here, just an idea. There are online diagrams that I come across every now and then, but I've never been proactive in checking copyrights and stuff.

Just something to think about. :)

 
So you mean
take something like or or and label it similar to ?

 
Excellent images!
Speaking of the salticid palp, here's a page by Wayne Maddison: labeled palp

 
Yep
That's exactly the type of thing that I meant. :) It would be wonderful to have a real specimen labeled as you did with those chelicerae. But now that I've spoken with Nadine and we can use her illustrations, I don't want to bother anyone else with trying to make/label a palp diagram from "scratch"...unless they want to, and feel it would help others get used to the important parts of the palp. I think your images are beautiful, by the way! Let me know if there are any particular palp diagrams from SONA (or any of Nadine's other illustrations) that you feel would be nice to have for the pedipalp glossary page, or elsewhere in the Guide.

 
Good news from Nadine Dupérré!!
An excerpt from the email:

"Sure no problems, I’m always glad when my illustrations can be of some help.

Just send me a list of the figures you would like and I will send you the scans, so you wont have to scan them.

Also with the list I will let the president of the American Arachnological Society know what figures you will use and that I gave you permission to use them so nobody freak out if they see them there."


How exciting, eh!! I thought it was. :) So, do you guys have any suggestions as to which palp figures would be best? I was thinking both Fig. 72.29 (pg 264 in SONA) and Fig. 72.31 (pg 265 in SONA) since they seem to be 'all encompassing'. But I bet that they would be difficult to read for the untrained eye...so I guess their only purpose might be to show just how intricate and complex the male palp is.

There are lots of other labeled figures, though:
From SONA:
pg. 261, Fig. 72.8
pg. 262, Fig. 72.12
pg. 268, Fig. 72.51 & Fig. 72.52
pg. 270, Fig. 72.64
pg. 273, Fig. 72.74 & Fig. 72.75
As you all know, there are many other beautiful illustrations in SONA, but unfortunately most of the others are unlabeled.

I haven't searched through all of Nadine's other publications for more palp diagrams (yet), but here is a list of her works if anyone else wants to or has the time: http://research.amnh.org/iz/staff/publications-nadine-dup%C3%A9rr%C3%A9

I will let Nadine know that we are deciding which diagrams as a team and may need a few days.

 
Good news! I would follow
Good news!

I would follow the "keep it simple" rule -- perhaps only one or two (expanded and not?) One, so as not to take too much advantage of her generosity, and second, because these are rather advanced topics for most people. Anyone delving in further will have or want to buy the "SONA" guide.

(In retrospect, I think that your selection of illustrations is not so bad -- each covers a specific feature that is commonly referred to in the literature.)

-K

 
Good going.
Mandy, that's great that Nadine is going to let us use some of her drawings. Thanks for asking her! :)

 
Posted some links
I don't have any diagrams, but I added links to a couple of papers at the bottom of the pedipalp page. The material is pretty advanced, but anyone who reads it will come away with a greater appreciation for and understanding of the incredible structure of male palps, and the nomenclature used to describe them!

Both papers are loaded with diagrams. The second of the two includes a page showing general structures of the palp, with a brief explanation for each (pg 342).

 
Nice!
I'm sure some of the more advance users with appreciate those!

 
Alright y'all -- time for bed
Alright y'all -- time for bed. ;-)

-K

 
Pfft...haha!
I bet you're drinking coffee and eating cereal and fruit right about now. :)

 
..
The Nearctic Database site has a useful glossary, but text-only. SONA has the best general-purpose explanatory diagrams that I think I've seen. Perhaps you could ask the AAS -- although you might ask Nadine Dupérré directly, as I think she did the drawings.

Otherwise I can check with my friend, the graphic artist and arachnologist Arno. Here are a couple of his schematic anatomical drawings for the Spinnen-Wiki:
http://wiki.spinnen-forum.de/index.php?title=Anatomie_von_Spinnen
http://wiki.spinnen-forum.de/index.php?title=Anatomie_der_Weberknechte

He may have one already, or could perhaps come up with one sometime.

-K

* And then, of course, I just now looked up at the top of this page -- perhaps John can help.

 
[i]SONA has the best general-
SONA has the best general-purpose explanatory diagrams that I think I've seen.

Absolutely. Nice diagrams of the palp and structures in both the "normal" and "expanded" positions.

 
I just emailed Nadine
Good call on that one, Kevin. I hadn't even thought of that route. Hopefully she will respond to little ol' me. I described the layout of the site and specifically showed her where and how the diagrams would be used.

If I never hear back from her, maybe your friend would be a good way to go. His other diagrams are very nice!

I don't think John S. still has that scope/drawing equipment, but I could be wrong. Seems like I read that he doesn't have it anymore.

 
Copyright
You shouldn't have to worry about copyrights if you give links to the views that you want to show and the users have to click the link to see the detail. If you cause the image to display on BG then it becomes an issue.

 
Aha!
Why didn't I think of that? :) Thanks, Max!

Although it would still be cool to have a diagram actually in the BG system like some of the other diagrams are. But if nothing comes of that... links to other web sources will work just as well.

Glad to see that you've lured
Glad to see that you've been lured back into the world of arachnids!

-K

Splendid!
Hope you didn't stop with one species!!

 
Wow!
I agree with the Balabans! Are you a scientific illustrator by profession? You are an amazing artist, and they are SO precise and accurate! Beautiful!

 
Thanks guys!
I'm afraid that I cannot claim to be an artist with much talent (though I'm glad you like the drawings)! Here's my secret: I used a special microscope which enabled me to see both the magnified spider and a piece of paper on the table beside it at the same time. In that way, the image of the spider was superimposed on the paper and I basically just traced the outlines and features. I later filled in and completed the shading to match the specimen. After that, I used special transparent paper to make an ink copy of the original pencil drawing (again, a trace).

That setup enabled me to make fairly accurate drawings. Unfortunately, I only did drawings of this particular spider, because it was for a school paper I wrote on the species. I wish now that I had done drawings of some other spiders when I had the chance. I'd like to get a similar microscope in the near future, because I'm thinking of a long-term project that would include making similar drawings for each species of spider found in Alberta (that's more than 500 species, male and female - a very long-term project!). I think that would be a great way to compare the anatomies of the respective species found in this region.

 
I'd like to get...
...one of those microscopes, too! :) And good luck on your Alberta project! I'm sure it will be wonderful :)

 
"Camera lucida"
I have an old "Wild" microscope, refurbished by Martin Microscopy, with a "drawing arm" (aka "camera lucida"). I'm thinking I might do more photography than drawing, though, so might sell the drawing attachment. I highly recommend Martin Microscopy, by the way. Bobby is very patient and committed to providing exactly what you need. I also concur with the others that you are very talented, without qualifications!

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