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Photo#353709
Spider on scree hill higher elevation - Melocosa fumosa

Spider on scree hill higher elevation - Melocosa fumosa
On trail up to Sentinel Pass, on scree slope leading up Temple Mountain, Above Larch Valley, which is above Moraine Lake, Alberta, Canada
September 25, 2009
Size: seemed big!

Moved
Moved from Spiders.

Rod Crawford to the rescue!
I sent Rod Crawford, our local expert, a link to this photo. It's difficult to tell much from this photo, but he did say this:

(1st reply)--"The overall appearance is rather lycosid-like, but what little I can
make out of the eyes from the online version, doesn't confirm it. The
rear lateral eyes aren't far enough back on the carapace. However, the
photo isn't quite high-res enough for me to be sure of that.

A reasonably likely wolf spider to find in that situation would be
Melocosa fumosa:
http://www.canadianarachnology.org/data/spiders/18459"

(2nd reply)--"Stop the presses, the specimen might actually be a Melocosa.
Finding no online photos of the genus, I got out a specimen and it turns out
that this particular genus has a rather unusual eye configuration.
However, I still can't be sure from this photo - I'd need something
where the individual eyes appear a little more definitely - in the
online version, the possible eye locations are only 3 or 4 pixels
each... RC"
---------------------------------------------------------------

(This is Mandy speaking now, haha) The photo of Melocosa fumosa, the only species of the genus I believe, looks very similar to Karen's spider. I wonder if Lynette (or whoever usually does it) could start a guide page for Melocosa (a Lycosid) while we're thinking about it?

 
To Karen Zimmerman
You don't have an email address listed, but I was hoping to contact you about getting an original (bigger/better) sized version of your spider photo so that Rod Crawford can look at it. He may be able to see the eyes better and help get it identified. If you would rather not have your email address publicly displayed here, feel free to contact me, Mandy, at upsara_8159[at]hotmail[dot]com

 
email address
Hi Mandy,
I am happy to send the original, though, I am embarrassed to say none of them came out really clear....it was a really bright sunny day and my preview on the camera looked good at the time.
aloes-on-my-mind@ca.rr.com
all the best,
kz

 
To Karen
Actually, Rod Crawford figured out the ID of your spider last night based on a cropped image that Lynette made, so we don't need a copy of the original anymore. Your spider was a Melocosa fumosa. A wolf spider in a genus that Bug Guide didn't have a record of yet. I don't know how you feel about that... I know that most Bug Guide users add their 'new state records' to their user page under the bibliography section in order to keep track of them and sort of show them off, too. :) I have yet to earn my first state record yet. Congrats on yours!

 
State record
Is that what they're using for state records? I thought it was the first time that bug had been recorded by anyone in that state? In this case this wouldn't be a state record.

 
Oh?
I guess I thought it was according to Bug Guide. Like if they were the first to submit a bug that hadn't been recorded on Bug Guide yet. I thought that's what people have been calling 'state records'? Lol. So it actually means a record that has been checked and rechecked and found to have never, in the history of a particular state, been recorded before? If so, those records are a lot more prestigious than I had originally thought! :) Sorry about the mix-up. (Hmm...so if it's something never before recorded, does that actually mean a 'new species'?)

 
I suppose
it's up to the individuals. I'd have to check their pages to be sure. After 5 years, I have one confirmed state record (meaning the specimen was collected, confirmed and is on file at a university).

 
I don't mean to pry...
...but was your record that cool dirt-colored seed bug on your page? Or something else?

 
No
Unfortunately I released that bug before finding out it may be a new species. My state record is a carpet beetle. You can see it here.

 
Neat!
Sorry for all the questions...I'm just a curious person. So was that beetle a new species? Or was it a larger than normal one? I read all the comments but I guess I didn't really understand what was going on.

 
State Record
It was the first time it had been recorded in the state of MT. It has been recorded in Idaho, and I'm not sure what other states.

 
This has all been super excit
This has all been super exciting! I so happy to get the ID for my image, and to contribute a new spider photo to BugGuide. Thanks for all of your help!

 
Disregard that, Karen
Looks like Lynette created a good cropped copy...which worked well enough for Rod to see. Yay! I already know what he said (I got a CC of the email)...but I'm going to hold you all in suspense and let Lynette break the news. Haha! :)

 
larger version sent
Though I don't know if it will be big enough. I copied the original from above, cropped it and emailed it to Rod a few minutes ago.

 
Cool!
Can't wait to hear what he says!

 
Me, too.
This is all very interesting.

Moved
Moved from ID Request.

Hmm
I'm not sure where to start on this one. Could be a female Lycosid of some kind. I think I am seeing two large, front facing eyes? It looks sort of primitive, but I not sure what it is. Hopefully someone will know about it based on its high elevation habitat.

 
It looks like a lycosid to me
It looks like a lycosid to me, too. Did you collect it, by any chance?

 
Thanks for your replies. No,
Thanks for your replies. No, I didn't collect it. Just enjoyed watching it! ;-)

 
Any other angles?
Did you take any other shots? The eyes here are the key. The do look wolf spider-like, but are a little closer together than most wolf spiders I'm used to seeing.

 
Those long palps
look strange too - very interesting!

 
I wish I could have taken mor
I wish I could have taken more at different angles, but was not able to on that narrow slippery trail.

 
Pardosa very common in Alberta
I just read here that Pardosa wolf spiders are the most common Lycosids in Alberta...making up about half of all the wolf spider population in the province. I have never read anything else from this source before, so I can't speak for its validity... but prior to reading it, I was thinking this spider might be an adult female Pardosa species that Bug Guide doesn't have yet. (?)

 
I saw that article, and the p
I saw that article, and the picture of that thin legged Wolf spider doesn't look like this one... are there others?

 
Yes, there's LOTS of Pardosa
That photo was just one example of a Pardosa. I was mainly just linking to that site because of the text where it said Pardosa are the most common wolf spider in Alberta. But technically, Pardosa are one of the five largest genera in the world anyways, so I guess that link was unnecessary (or redundant). Thin-legged wolf spiders are all in the genus Pardosa, which contains at least 45 separate species in Canada and Alaska. There are many more species in the US (about 70) and around 350 species worldwide. These Pardosa spiders are divided into 'groups' (Pardosa 'moesta group' for example). You can see the groups that Bug Guide currently has here. There are currently 14 species groups in the United States, only 8 of them are currently represented on Bug Guide. I am really intrigued by your spider and would like to look into it more. Some days I have more time than others...but I will get to it soon I hope.

 
Thank you so much for the lin
Thank you so much for the links and the wonderful information! I am so glad to know there are so many different wolf spiders. They are really cool critters! I really regret not trying to get better images of that one, but I did the best I could at the time...

 
No problem
I enjoy this kind of thing! That was just one genus of wolf spider, too. There are soooo many more. No worries about getting more photos. We may not be able to ID her, but we can at least have fun trying. :)

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