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Brown/red  Thyanta pallidovirens - Thyanta custator

Brown/red Thyanta pallidovirens - Thyanta custator
Pine, Gila County, Arizona, USA
July 14, 2009
The green one I think is Thyanta Pallidovirens but the brown one does not match the female I expected.

Moved from ID Request.

Thyanta custator vs T. pallidovirens -- D.B. Thomas det.
his comment: "There are good biological reasons for keeping these as separate species although they are virtually indistinguishable morphologically. For the longest time, in the older literature, the common Thyanta species (coast-to-coast distribution) was called T. custator. Then Herb Ruckes revised the group and decided that the common species (coast-to-coast) was actually T. pallidovirens with T. custator limited to Florida. He also divided T. pallidovirens into three sub-species which he called accera (with black spots on the abdomen, mainly midwestern and northern in range), spinosa (with spinose humeral angles, mainly southwestern), and pallidovirens, found on the west coast, which didn't have the ventral spots or the spiny angles. As with any subspecific characters, they tend to breakdown in the areas of transition. Dave Rider then reversed Ruckes and decided that the common coast-to-coast species was T. custator, and would have done away with T. pallidovirens as a synonym except for a study of the chromosomes by Ueshida at U. Berkeley. The California populations have 2n=16, whereas the midwestern population has 2n=14. So I basically follow Rider who kept the species names. If it's from California and doesn't have spines or spots on the abdomen I call it pallidovirens. Everything else is T. custator."

Sure look different from the ones in Tucson
some of ours have really spinose angles

Thank you
Since both were collected at the same time and place, Pine Az, then both are T. custator. This gives me a better idea of variation within the species and i must suppose that color and spots make a minor difference here.

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