deep end of ID Request

Rather than posting hundreds of comments to this forum thread

You can just leave your thoughts as comments on the images themselves. It would make it easier to follow the comment thread for each image also. Thanks

… john and jane balaban, 7 July, 2021 - 9:09am

I have put several comments u

I have put several comments under some images, but they often don't get noticed at all because they're so far back.

… Hexapoda, 7 July, 2021 - 12:56pm

We have moved everything past page 40

that was recognizable to us to order or beyond. But we don't have a clue what to do with most of the images on the last 70 pages of ID Request. We would guess most of them are frass, but don't know enough to make that call. There may be someone who knows what some of those things are, but unfortunately it isn't us. :(

… john and jane balaban, 6 July, 2021 - 8:04pm

Could this be moved to Xenox?

Could this be moved to Xenox? It seems to be directly related to Xylocopa nests and more or less looks right for that Genus.

The adult image could probably be frassed, but the pupa images are good.

… Hexapoda, 6 July, 2021 - 10:11pm

Frass this one?

The face in this image seems identifiable as a ground nesting vespid, probably Vespula, but the images are not very clear.

… Hexapoda, 6 July, 2021 - 10:13pm

Put this one with fungus infested insects?

… Hexapoda, 6 July, 2021 - 10:19pm

Frass?

Almost certainly not insect in origin.

… Hexapoda, 6 July, 2021 - 10:21pm

Over 100 pages

ID request is now over 100 pages, if anyone is able to move images at least to order level.

I have been busy with school and work, but have been trying to grab a few. I think many are frass, but even if so I like to point people in the right direction or let them know what would be needed to get an ID.

… Jeff Brown, 29 April, 2020 - 1:00pm

I have moved recognizable ima

I have moved recognizable images from page 59 through the end to Order (and in a few cases further where a reliable ID existed). Page 59 and before have recognizable images generally and should be movable if one has the expertise. After page 59 it's mostly galls, scales, and unrecognizables...

… Kelsey J.R.P. Byers, 8 May, 2020 - 8:40am

Lest anyone fear this as a po

Lest anyone fear this as a pointless exercise, a mayfly I dredged out of the deep end (where it'd been lingering for nearly 4 months) just got an ID to genus once it made it to the Order page.

I've gone through pages 43-57 and moved what I could, but unfortunately it wasn't very much - looks like others have been helping out as well, thanks all!

… Kelsey J.R.P. Byers, 24 December, 2019 - 4:23pm

Back from the gathering

moved a lot of images to the order pages. But the last 25 or thirty pages or so are a mystery to us. Hopefully some of you will have a go at some of those images. Thanks

… john and jane balaban, 10 August, 2019 - 4:01pm

pages 30 to 60 or so

If you can tell a scale from a gall, a bark louse from a book louse from a psocid, a mealy bug from a mealy bug destroyer, then the last 30 pages of ID Request could use your help. See if you can move some of those images into the guide at Order or beyond. Please don't move them to the Insecta or Arthropoda pages. Those are basically the same as ID Request - except they seldom get looked at. Better off to just leave things at ID Request. We've been moving images since we got back from Oregon and have cut ID Request in half. Hope you can find some time to help. Thanks

… john and jane balaban, 21 July, 2019 - 12:02am

Also moved some

Wish there was a faster way to move images. Lots of plant pathology-related photos back there.

… Graham Montgomery, 26 July, 2019 - 5:57pm

That's where I'm at too

Leaning towards plant path on a few, but I admit I don't know the gall formers/leaf miners/other internal insects well enough to confidently tell the difference.

… Tyler Hedlund, 26 July, 2019 - 9:15pm

Thanks for doing that

It really helps to cut everything down. I managed to shift a handful, but there are some tough ones towards the end.

… Tyler Hedlund, 25 July, 2019 - 10:52am

Last 20 pages of ID Request

still full of mysteries if you can help

… john and jane balaban, 19 May, 2019 - 5:12pm

Shifted a few

Only to order in many cases, but it's something at least. Definitely some oddities towards the end there.

… Tyler Hedlund, 26 May, 2019 - 4:27pm

Excellent!

Thanks

… john and jane balaban, 26 May, 2019 - 5:39pm

Moved out some of the ones we recognize

but yes, still "lots of unknown larvae, galls, mines, scales, etc" back there if anyone knows them.

… john and jane balaban, 20 April, 2019 - 11:51am

I've gotten from page 43-page

I've gotten from page 43-page 50 this evening, and will keep looking at 51-57 tomorrow. Much of what's left on 43-50 is galls, mines, mites, larvae I don't know to order, etc.

The rest I have moved as far down as possible; this means some images of poor quality have been moved in case someone can ID them further. I've frassed a few others.

… Kelsey J.R.P. Byers, 23 November, 2018 - 9:59pm

aaand have finished my look-t

aaand have finished my look-through to the last page (p56). Lots of unknown larvae, galls, mines, scales, etc that I haven't the least clue on back there.

… Kelsey J.R.P. Byers, 24 November, 2018 - 1:57pm

OK, finally caught up with ID Request after spending a few weeks

visiting siblings. We have moved everything after pg 43 (more than 1000 images deep) on ID Request that we could to Order or deeper. Everything that is left past that, some 5 or 6 hundred images is beyond us. We can't even place them to order. We could use your help on the deep end of ID Request, especially if you know galls or scales or insect larva to do something with those last 23 odd pages. So just putting out the call.

We don't agree that they should necessarily be summarily frassed just because they haven't been ID'd yet. Some images on BugGuide have waited eight years for the right person to see them and earn their identification. We are, of course, expecting that many will be frassed - we just don't know enough to make that decision.

Thanks for any help you can give

… john and jane balaban, 14 July, 2018 - 5:29pm

Thanks

I really appreciate all your work, and I admire your expertise.
That goes for all the editors.
Also appreciate the welcome attitude towards newcomers, even though every
new image represents more work for someone.

… stan gilliam, 3 August, 2018 - 3:24pm

Great work guys.

I went through the last few pages, but couldn't help with much. Just know that the community appreciates your hard work. I agree with y'all that not everything should be frassed; who knows what interesting discoveries could lie amongst them.

… Graham Montgomery, 3 August, 2018 - 2:25pm

My non-editor thoughts.

If no one has made an ID after a certain time period, no one ever will. State on your page that photos that could not be identified will be deleted at some point. People are always free to resubmit the photos. My guess is that almost no one will. I am always optimistic that someone will be able to identify things but if that isn't possible that is fine.

If there are academic groups interested in something rare or especially difficult to identify, state on your page that images may be shared with these groups and let them download the ones they may want to later look at within your time frame.

Every ID I get from BugGuide is a treasure! I don't expect that I will get an id from every picture I post. As you are probably aware, while I am enamored with small creatures, they do not always pose for me and I am not an expert at photography.

This is not a service that we pay for and expect to get a result. When we get information, we are lucky and grateful to get it.

I am not at all sure how I got to this thread. I am not an editor. I know I am restating ideas that others have stated. It is OK for you to make rules that work for you. Defining the rules on the page would probably be a good idea.

I am quite good at crafting policy statements. If you wanted me to make a draft for you to review, I could probably do that. That way you could all weigh in honestly stating that I have no clue, and perhaps get a policy statement that gets closer to where you want to be. I really don't take stuff personally. I love to make things work better. Let me know. I don't think I get notified for forum responses so perhaps email me if I can help. eaglebeach (at) comcast.net

… eaglebeach, 30 June, 2018 - 2:29pm

this is somewhat my philosophy...

have a term limit, like with Frass. After so many days, images get purged from ID Request. People can resubmit if need be. Honestly a lot of the stuff at the deep end are poorer quality images/specimens

… Blaine Mathison, 10 August, 2018 - 3:54pm

Moved a bunch of stuff from the deep end

to Order. Much of what remains out there are possibly scales and larva and such. Not sure if it would be helpful to move them to the unidentified scales and larvae pages. Seems like that would simply be moving the problem from one place in the guide to another. Thoughts?

… john and jane balaban, 15 June, 2018 - 1:49pm

bumping this up for help

The deep end of ID Request is filled with scales and galls and larvae and stuff we don't even recognize to order. Guessing a lot of it is frass but we don't know enough to know if there is something important in these images. Moved a lot of what was there to order but don't know what to do with most of what is left. Sorry. Help?

… john and jane balaban, 23 February, 2018 - 2:27pm

Took care of a few...

...but there's a lot of stuff there that I don't recognize either. Sorry.

… Ken Wolgemuth, 23 February, 2018 - 7:00pm

I just cleaned up 100+ beetle images

… Blaine Mathison, 23 December, 2017 - 8:56am

thanks to you and all the editors

.happy holidays!

… stan gilliam, 23 December, 2017 - 11:58am

We've moved a bunch of images from ID Request to Order

but once again the deep end of ID Request stymies us. Guessing much of it is frass, but we don't want to move it there without giving folks some kind of ID - which unfortunately with our knowledge, or lack thereof, we can't do.

… john and jane balaban, 28 July, 2017 - 2:12pm

Just popping this up to the top

Looked through the last few pages of ID Request but we just don't know enough to know what order to move things to. We certainly can't tell folks what they've imaged, but that doesn't mean there isn't someone out there who can. There's about ten pages of mystery back there. It doesn't hurt anything for them to be there, but just encouraging folks to look. You may know what you're looking at, or you may be knowledgeable enough to know that the image can be frassed. Wish we did, but...

… john and jane balaban, 31 March, 2017 - 8:51pm

I've been trying to go throug

I've been trying to go through the deep end (pages 20+) of ID Request and move non-moth, non-spider, non-larva images to order at least (which is as far as I can move many of them). Many of the images back there are of cruddy quality anyhow (and I don't move the completely unidentifiable ones as there's really no point), but I figure it's a safer bet to move them and let an expert frass them than to leave them in the deep end with no hope of ever being seen; some are pretty good images that just got missed somehow.

Please do advise if folks are finding this annoying!

… Kelsey J.R.P. Byers, 30 November, 2016 - 7:40am

Once again, the deep end of ID Request

has much that the two of us don't have a clue what to do with. Maybe some other editors can stare at those last 100 images or so and see if they can figure them out.

… john and jane balaban, 14 May, 2016 - 12:36pm

I cleaned up a lot of the beetle pics

moving/frassing accordingly

… Blaine Mathison, 14 May, 2016 - 5:26pm

Once again

In the last two days I've frassed dozens and moved dozens more into the guide from the last 10-15 pages; just in the last few hours I've frassed 73 images, almost all from the deep end. I'm reaching the limit of what I can do, though, especially on the last several pages, which have all sorts of mostly frass-worthy images that I often can't identify past order, if that. A lot of them could probably be moved to unidentified tracks, sign, and other mysteries but there are many more that should probably get some sort of ID before being frassed that I just can't provide.

… Aaron Hunt, 2 June, 2016 - 4:35pm

The problem with Browse

is the growing number of superfamily and subfamily and superorder etc pages. You can click on Browse and not see anything that looks remotely like your bug. You can click on one and then click back and click on the next and click back, but it often gets too tedious. The field guide feature is best met at present by the special pages some editors have been making which lets you scroll through a large number of images till you see something that looks like your bug. Phil Harpootlian's Coleoptera Info page is a great example. Just used it to find an unusual Carabid that we knew we had seen but couldn't remember a name. Would never have found it using Browse.
We think John VanDyk's fix will be pages like this that have lots of images but only one from each species or genus.

… john and jane balaban, 1 September, 2015 - 10:37pm

This may be the wrong place for this question,

but the large number of images piling up in various categories raises the question "what is the goal of Bug Guide?"
At least one specimen of each species for every state, every county?
Multiple specimens to show variations?
Thanks for all your great efforts and dedication!

… stan gilliam, 31 August, 2015 - 10:56am

Also, I hope, to document species interactions

I would like to see more emphasis on this

Are you aware that the field guide goal is best met using Browse mode as this reduces the number of images? Advanced Search is also very useful to filter the possibilities

… John S. Ascher, 1 September, 2015 - 7:06pm

Thanks for the comment, John, and for all your ID help.

I have never thought of BG as a field guide before because to me a "field guide" is something you can put in your backpack or coat pocket.
I have thought of it as a big reference book that lives on my desktop.

But the day is here now, with the rise of "Tablets" and other portable internet devices, that we can take BG with us into the "field."

I've been using the browse feature often. I now have about 1800 images posted here, many of which I have ID'd and placed myself, when I feel sure.
I like BG a lot!

I'm glad you mentioned species interactions. To that I would add
various other behaviors of species such as mating, eating, egg-laying,
metamorphosing, etc.

… stan gilliam, 1 September, 2015 - 7:26pm

it's easy to edit this virtual pocket guide if you have a phone

no need for a big tablet

… John S. Ascher, 2 September, 2015 - 8:52am

Not just editing

If you have a smartphone and are in internet range, BugGuide is truly an unbelievable field guide!

… Even Dankowicz, 27 September, 2015 - 5:32pm

On the Home page you can see our mission and plan

BugGuide is lots of things: an online field guide, a virtual insect collection, a community of buglovers, a place where folks can get answers to their questions on bugs, etc. As a virtual insect collection, it is not a problem that there are large numbers of images, as a matter of fact, that just makes the collection better. It does, at present, interfere with the online field guide goal, but John VanDyk is working on a fix for that. But an image of every species from every county from every month would not be a reasonable or even a valuable goal. That would be countless thousands of repetitive images, even more than a good collection needs.

… john and jane balaban, 31 August, 2015 - 2:12pm

Deleted the part in the original comment about moths

since that seemed to be confusing folks now that moths are routinely moved to the Moths page after a few weeks. The question is just what to do with the mystery stuff that makes up the last half dozen pages of ID request or so. No overall plan is needed for all ID Request since there are only about 30 pages of images there.

… john and jane balaban, 30 August, 2015 - 11:39pm

Could have a new section maybe

"Older ID requests" and have ID requests that are 2 weeks or 3 weeks old automatically move there, might clean it up a bit.

Though some might say that isn't fixing the issue.

… James Bailey, 30 August, 2015 - 10:11pm

People are probably going to HATE this idea, but...

what if ID Request had an automatic purge date like Frass (maybe longer, even 45 or 60 days). Most of the stuff that stays back that far (at least for the taxa I curate) is often eventually frassed anyway.

We as editors try to do our best to give IDs and move stuff, but given the inflow of images we cannot devote all of our time to this and things are going to pile up. If someone's images get purged after a month or more, they can always resubmit them.

… Blaine Mathison, 18 August, 2015 - 3:23pm

Alternaitve suggestions:

1. Why not routinely move all moths buried in ID request to moth guide?

2. I encourage editors, especially the very nice ones, who comment on poor images to frass them directly rather than leaving this for other editors.

… John S. Ascher, 22 August, 2015 - 9:23am

And elsewhere ...

If in ID-Request the moth pictures are indeed of better quality than others as John and Jane seem to suggest, the more unsatisfactory ones apparently are placed into Moths: Perhaps some purging would be a good thing there as well (purge any of mine if it deserves it!).

… Peter Homann, 13 August, 2015 - 3:57pm

Just bouncing this up to the top

Much very strange stuff sitting on the last ten pages of ID Request

… john and jane balaban, 2 August, 2015 - 12:16pm