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Photo#864697
Tigrosa grandis Male - Tigrosa grandis - male

Tigrosa grandis Male - Tigrosa grandis - Male
Topeka, Shawnee County, Kansas, USA
November 10, 2013
Size: 23mm BL
Here is a male I had for awhile that finally died. He lost a pedipalp and a leg during one of his many breedings with females. I assumed it was a Tigrosa aspersa but the ventral does not appear to look like those of aspersa. I will say that this male was MUCH bigger than the majority of the wolf spider males. I used this as a potential reference for T. aspersa for it is the largest Tigrosa species.

Images of this individual: tag all
Tigrosa grandis Male - Tigrosa grandis - male Tigrosa grandis Male Ventral - Tigrosa grandis - male Tigrosa grandis Male Dorsal  - Tigrosa grandis - male Tigrosa grandis Male Dorsal  - Tigrosa grandis - male Tigrosa grandis Male Pedipalp - Tigrosa grandis - male

Paper
Since I am majoring in biology, I decided to write a brief paper combining everything I had learned about the Tigrosa grandis, including some behavioral descriptions from my observations.

The draft can be viewed here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/240562285/A-Brief-Personal-History-with-the-Morphological-and-Behavioral-Description-of-the-Tigrosa-grandis-Lycosidae

 
Neat, thank you ...
for the mention!

 
You're Welcome!
...

Video
Apparently I still have a few videos running around on my channel of this species from three to four years ago. Back then, I thought they were T. aspersa:

Female feeding on cricket: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrVpRqmt1HM&list=UUWEQYPa_xkrFAtw_e-sFZNA

Male's enclosure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7IRx4DZBQ4&list=UUWEQYPa_xkrFAtw_e-sFZNA

Again, I apologize for my awful commentary. >_

 
Nice!
Aaand that cricket is going to die. Ha ha....

 
Back then...
...I was just a nerdy sophomore in high school keeping odd organisms!!! I literally had NO idea as to what I was doing when making those videos.

 
:D
That was a great looking spider though. For someone who had no idea what you were doing, you did a pretty good job of keeping them. I flubbed up keeping my T. helluo. I left the babies with the mother for too long and I think I let the humidity get too high. It didn't end well.

 
T. helluo...
...have been fairly tricky for me as well. One of my females laid two eggsacs but ate both of them the next day. I assumed it was because they were infertile but I don't know...

 
That's interesting ...
that she would make two. If I ever try it again I think I'm going to need to use a bigger container than I did and remove the mother. There were so many spiderlings on the sides I couldn't really clean it and I didn't have the time to carefully move them to a new container. I thought they'd eat each other and I'd be left with a few healthy ones but they just got limp and lethargic.

Parasite
The female's eggsac I had which hatched was actually parasitized by this mantidfly:


After she dropped the leftover eggsac, I put the sac in a jar. The next day, the mantidfly hatched out. Just something interesting.

 
That's wild,
I just left the egg sac with mine, it didn't occur to me to remove it.

Baby Tigrosa grandis
One of my young Tigrosa grandis' eggsac is beginning to hatch out. While most of the young have yet to come out, a few early birds have popped out. I scooped one of them out, took a few photos and uploaded them to the T. grandis page.


I will try and get a ventral tomorrow.

 
Meanwhile ...
I have a Tigrosa helluo with spiderlings:


I haven't tried to get ventral on mine, I don't want to disturb her. I haven't tried to take any of the spiderlings out either, they're starting to disperse though and are coating the first bottom couple inches of the perimeter of the container they're in.

 
Nice Photos!
Good macro shots. Likewise, my T. grandis has laid another eggsac.

 
Very nice!
Thank you for uploading the additional images and helping BugGuide document this species! Thanks to you and Laura, now when people Google "Tigrosa grandis" there are actually images to see! =D I don't think there ever were any others before BugGuide made the new page for them.

 
No Worries!
I am glad to help out!

 
Cool,
I have a T. helluo with an egg sac I'm waiting on. Unfortunately I lost the main macro lens I most often use to take pictures. The lens apparently fell out of it's casing and I can't find it. :( I haven't looked into it yet but am hoping the company who makes it will cover it under the warranty.

 
I've...
...actually utilized the camera on my Galaxy S3 to take many of the closeup shots. It has its own macro setting that allows me to focus in on some of the smaller individuals. While the result isn't as clear as the macro lens on my real camera, the versatility means I often use the phone camera more often. Whatever the case, the spiderlings move way too fast to get decent pictures. Likewise, I didn't want to chill them at such a young age. Good luck on the T. helluo sac. The one time I had a T. helluo sac the female decided to eat it after two weeks; perhaps it wasn't fertile.

 
Most of my ...
pictures have been taken with either an ipod or iphone with a macro lens clip on (Olloclip). I still have lenses, but it's the highest magnification I lost. My regular camera doesn't have very good macro capabilities.
Edit: My recent palp shots were taken with and ipod help up to the eye piece of a stereo microscope.

 
Microscope
That's what I did with my palp shots. However, the quality of your's actually turned out much better than mine. I still need to play around with the settings on the camera; perhaps, raise the exposure a little more.

Spider Excursion
A few friends and I decided to go on a small excursion to see whether we can find some Dolomedes at the pond in our environmental area. While we didn't succeed, we did find a large number of wolf spiders, all within burrows. I have a link below that leads to some photos of the spiders we saw, including Tigrosa grandis within their burrows (I'm shooting myself for not getting a large photo of their habitat. I will have to do that later this week). There was an incredibly large concentration of them near the slope of a drainage ditch. Also present were Tigrosa helluo and Hogna carolinensis. We also found a very large Tigrosa grandis with an eggsac. I am not sure whether the photos are needed for the guide so I will let you all decided whether any of them are useful.

http://imgur.com/a/LGHXy#1

 
I like ...
The first one of the T. grandis in the burrow and the closeup of the T. grandis with an egg sac on your hand.

 
I've...
...added two series of photographs onto the Tigrosa grandis page.

The Burrow:


The Eggsac:

I apologize...
...for moving stuff around. I accidentally unlinked the images while trying to add another image.

Moved
Moved from Tigrosa grandis.

Moved

Big Male
What species was he breeding with and did any of his partners have offspring? Maybe if you keep this one preserved someone can properly ID him. :D

 
I have him preserved in alcohol.
He bred with a female T. aspersa and drummed when exposed to the silk of a female T. georgicola AND a female that maybe a T grandis. He did not drum when exposed to the silk of a female H. carolinensis. Only successful mating was with T. aspersa.

I still have the female T. aspersa and will keep an eye on her for any eggsac development (usually they lay once in late May-Early June and another time in late July).

I ALSO have a smaller male that looks similar but the ventral has little to no spotting. If I am not mistaken, T. grandis males in the majority of their range do not have the spotted venter.

 
...
That's interesting about the mating! Where did you hear about the variation in the male ventrals?

 
From Brady:
"Occurring primarily west of the one hundredth meridian (Map 4). Carapace with yellow submarginal stripes beginning posterior
to cephalic region and continuing to posterior edge (Fig. 23). Dorsum of abdomen with dark rectangular cardiac mark with
posterior half outlined in black and surrounded by light tan color (Fig. 23). Venter of abdomen mottled in appearance without
distinct dark brown to black dots or lines
(Fig 44). Palea with shape in retrolateral view as in Fig. 25. . . . . . . . . Tigrosa grandis
Occurring primarily east of the one hundredth meridian (Maps 3, 5). Carapace with yellow submarginal stripes beginning in
cephalic region and continuing to posterior edge (Figs. 17, 29). Dorsum of abdomen with dark lanceolate cardiac mark outlined
in brown or black and surrounded by broad yellow stripes and with yellow chevrons or spots posterior to cardiac region
(Figs. 17, 29). Venter with distinct dark brown or black spots (Fig. 41) or longitudinal lines of black spots (Fig. 42). Palea in
retrolateral view of palpus..."

 
Yeah ...
the way that is written is confusing to me. The spotted look of this one looks like the ventral illustration they have of the female T. grandis to me. When it goes on to say "occurring primarily east of the one hundredth meridian" I read that part as referring to T. helluo and T. georgicola but the number on the left doesn't line up like the others.

 
...
I took it simply as "Individuals from west of the meridian have no spotting on venter whereas those on the east do." But that might just be an issue with annotations.

 
spotted venter
As far as the venter goes... T. grandis is supposed to have spots (mottled in appearance) and comparing it to the drawings on Brady pg. 192 I think your spider looks most like T. helluo. However, it's too large for that species and the dorsal markings are off... so the next closest ventral looks like T. grandis (I guess if we're keeping to the larger species). T. grandis males have chevrons on the back half of the abdomen while T. aspersa does not.

I believe the line in the description about 'Venter of abdomen cream to pale yellow without darker spots or stripes' is meaning it doesn't have one of the more distinct patterns as found in T. georgicola however it does have a spotted venter as is seen both in the drawing and in the description as mottled.

I don't think Brady meant to give the impression that there is any difference between them east or west of the 100th Meridian. He should have left the 100th Meridian out of the whole thing. Just looking at the map he provides there is a T. grandis data point very close to the location of the spider above.

I think that based on size, range, venter & dorsal pattern the most obvious choice is T. grandis. As long as we're looking at the right genus!!

What was the habitat where it was collected?

 
Inside a School!
The habitat around the school; however, are open fields with grassy outcroppings. Behind the school is also a large environmental "prairie remnant." It was found in the same habitat as Hogna carolinensis. It sucks since the environment itself at the moment is covered my snow. I will see whether I can get a picture of the environment up for you to have a better understanding.

 
I don't need to see it
I was looking for dry grassy vs. wet swampy. Grassy areas would be consistent with that T. grandis as well. Brady specifically mentions that T. grandis has similar habitat to H. carolinensis. I think you guys have a new species for the guide here (or at least you have an image that is a good representative of the species).

Laura, you want to make the page?

 
If you think ...
it's a sure thing :), I felt like I wasn't supposed to make new pages for these without a voucher image.

Jimmy, did you plan on sending this one out to anyone to look at under a microscope? I asked Mandy Howe when you submitted it if she'd like to but she's been offline for a while and I haven't heard back yet. Another option would be for you to get a couple pictures of the palp yourself (I think you've mentioned occasionally having access to a stereo microscope before?) and posting it here.

 
I will see what I can do.
The snow/temperature here is awful at the moment (and there is no school for me tomorrow) but when it clears up, I will go and see whether I can borrow the biology lab at my high school sometime. What I worry is that this male only has one palp and that I may mess it up!

For the record, I still have a living male (with both his palps!) that looks exactly like this one. However, he is a little smaller in size (The pattern is identical, though).

Edit: If there are any tips for what I should or should not do, please do tell!

 
Unfortunately....
I'm completely inexperienced in that area. I'm sure there are others here who could give you pointers though, there's no rush. We just had a snow day here too, right now here it's actually warm and very windy but the temperature is supposed to drop tomorrow with wind chills well below zero. Enjoy your day off!

 
Palp shots
your best contact for that would be Kyron. He has some amazing tips... and does all his shots without harming the spider!

If we are relatively certain of our ID here I see no problem creating the guide page. We have many pages that have been created without a voucher image. When all factors match to the description in a scientific paper as they do in this one (and we know of no other spider that it could be) we just move forward with the page. If it turns out we're wrong later.... then we fix it.

We should also revisit Jimmy's other photos

 
Mating Video
This is a breeding attempt of one of the likely T. grandis males with one of the likely T. grandis females. Sorry for the somewhat boring and lackluster commentary, it was pretty late when I made it. :)
It wasn't successful but it does show the usual drumming of the male. The male was badly injured when I found him in the school hallway. He had a torn leg when I found him back in October. Eventually, he self amputated his leg and sealed the wound. I nursed him back to health and paired him with the female. So far, no luck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD1_IIm8Ef4

 
Nice job on the video!
I missed that other shot of the pair that was in Araneae, I didn't know that was there. That helps a lot, I knew the other spiders I had filed here were probably female T. grandis but wanted to be sure, they look like they have big yellow cheeks and I couldn't see that in the other shot of the female you have here but it's visible in the other shot.

I emailed Kevin Pfeiffer too about the palp, he's more experienced with dead spiders and microscopes than Kyron, I think.

 
I've added a palp picture...
I wasn't completely sure as to opening the pedipalp so I just tried to get as good of a picture as I could without damaging the specimen. Keep in mind that this individual has been exposed to alcohol at this point. Therefore, there is very great possibility that the individual has suffered some color deterioration.

 
Palp shot
After staring at it for a long while I don't think it looks like a spot on match to any of the diagrams in Brady's paper (I had to mirror and straighten the image on my end for comparison) it is similar enough though so it could be the angle or a number of other things throwing me off. I'll send a note to Mandy Howe and ask her to take a look when she gets a chance.

 
Thanks.
Again, it had been sitting in alcohol for a few months so that may have deteriorated or changed how it looks.

 
Palp
Your palp shot is pretty good & clear and the magnification is the right amount, but we're viewing the wrong side of the palp in this case (also the wrong palp). Diagrams are of the left palp, but it's easy enough to reverse the image so that's not really a problem. Seeing the right angles and parts is the important thing. These are tough (for me at least) to ID without being able to see them and move them around as needed... if you're interested, you could mail him to me and I could check (or Kevin, if he is interested). Or you could keep getting more shots of different angles of the palp. A completely ventral view and a retrolateral view are the most important, but zooming in on a few parts is too.
Nice work capturing their mating on video! Great to see a pair... I've never seen a verified female T. grandis before (or an actual verified male, for that matter). The females are darker than I thought!

 
Thank you!
I will play around with the dead male for a bit under the scope before I will send him to anyone. The issue was that he actually lost his left palp during one of the matings!

As far as I know, the individuals are T. grandis. However, due to the somewhat scarcity of information, I cannot 100% confirm anything. The description and the generalized color patterning on the individuals do match to a greater or lesser degree, though.

 
.
Sounds great! You might be able to get the right shots yourself without mailing him. Oops, I missed the part about him losing his other palp! I wouldn't have mentioned anything about it being the wrong palp if I'd realized, sorry about that.

For getting more images, it sounds like you have a copy of Brady's paper? The most important view would be the side view (retrolateral view) of the "palea", which is the part labeled "PA" on page 184 of that paper. A flat on ventral view is good too. Slowik & Cushing's paper may be helpful, too, if you can zoom in close enough to see what is in figure 3 in their paper (Hogna grandis = Tigrosa grandis).

I agree with you guys that it seems pretty likely to be T. grandis. Always great to get confirmation, though. The only thing that sometimes makes me extra careful with Hogna and Tigrosa-looking spiders is that I found out there are quite a few undescribed species in that group; I think someone has been working on them. So we could potentially get specimens that actually don't have an official name and don't have published diagrams anywhere yet. I'd agree that this one really, really seems like T. grandis, though. =)

 
I will continue...
...with what I can. Thanks for the links. I already had a copy of Brady's paper but I did not have the Slowik and Cushing paper. I need to take a look at the palp again as well as the palp of the other male. Likewise, I will have to see whether the female decides to give off some viable offspring in the spring.

 
Moving Pictures
Should we move these over to the new T. grandis page (since it is the same male as the one in the "pair" picture within the T. grandis section).

 
I Have This Other Specimen


If you two want to consider this one also. It fits the characteristics and it is a female.

 
 
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