Butterfly - Polygonia comma

mmm

I's sure like to see the under side of this one. Still looks like as much like P. progne as P. comma to me. Those two spots are just a bit thicker than usual (and only almost 100% reliable), also P. comma usually has the dark spots in the middle of the hind wing, this one doesn't.

Just pointing out lingering doubts, and the fact that the two can be very similar above.

This is the best example of a similar one I can find, an unusually strongly patterned one, but the inner spot is mostly hidden, so that can't be compared;

This one is getting in the ball park too, but is of the lighter seasonal form:

The inner spot is longer than usual (extends further basad along the upper margin of the discal cell), which brings it closer to the usual shape of the same spot in the same place in P. comma.

… David J. Ferguson, 2 March, 2015 - 10:12am

I agree that they are very similar.

Most of my knowledge comes from observing BOA and BugGuide images. My in the field observations have been limited to Eastern Comma.
I noted that many of the summer form P. comma do not have a black spot at the dorsal hindwing center. Also the angle of the wings in relation to the body can cause confusion. I think both of the examples have an inner hindwing spot below the outer spot. These specimens have HW characteristic of P. progne but I would need an below view to confirm ID.
Thanks for keeping me on my toes and recognizing the variation that occurs within butterfly species.

… Cliff Ivy, 2 March, 2015 - 6:22pm

Now I need to learn to check/edit my comments better.

"I's" (in my previous comment) is keyboard 'fat-finger' for "I'd" (aka "I would"). :0)

I have to admit that I probably rely a bit too much on gestalt for ID's, it gets me into trouble sometimes, and these Polygonia can be almost as confusing as Fritillaries.

I had never heard of, nor noticed the trait you are using regarding position of spots on the hind wing for these two species. It does seem to work almost all of the time. I want to point out for people trying to figure out what we are talking about that it's not precisely the position of the spot that is different, it's the size of the inner spot (which extends through two cells on most P. comma reaching higher on the wing, and through only one on most P. progne. I think I perceive it better if I squint a little, and it is definitely easier to see on a photo of a live butterfly than a spread one because, as you point out, the position of the wings affects the way it looks. I never saw the trait the way you are using it - until you pointed it out here. I just saw big spots and small spots.

Thanks

… David J. Ferguson, 6 March, 2015 - 10:47am

Moved

Moved from Commas, Question Mark.

… Cliff Ivy, 1 March, 2015 - 8:43pm

Eastern Comma, summer form

Note two large basal black hindwing spots are aligned horizontal rather than
the inter spot below and slanted distal in relation to outer spot as on Gray comma.

… Cliff Ivy, 1 March, 2015 - 8:35pm

Moved

Moved from ID Request.

… David J. Ferguson, 14 June, 2014 - 9:16am

Did you get a photo of the under side?

The Eastern Comma and Gray Comma (Progne) are very similar on top. This might be Polygonia comma, but I suspect it is P. progne . They look more different on the under side.

… David J. Ferguson, 12 June, 2014 - 12:37pm

perhaps

Eastern comma

… Larry de March, 11 June, 2014 - 8:54pm